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Wiki Leaks

Discussion in 'Non Fishing Chat' started by Baramundi Bob, Dec 16, 2010.

  1. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    What do people think about Wiki Leaks and the allegations about julian assange
     
  2. i think he has ever right to post and say what he likes long as it not racial or about religeon.

    sweden infact granted him permission to leave sweden now they want him back, the british public arnt stupid they no america is behind the pressure to have him silenced with sex smur allegations and wanting him forceably removed to the usa to stand trial for treason.

    we all saw what america thought about us and the rest of the world and they trying to shut him and his website up before it does america more damage.

    in this country there is a freedom of speech, im glad he put the truth on his website we all now now what america thinks of our soldiers and our country, and the rest of the world.
     
  3. makaman

    makaman Guest

    cup cakes icecream and mams apple pie god bless the usa
     
  4. CBass

    CBass New Member

    It stinks as a pathetic and obvious stitch up.

    The alleged sex offences are being reported by the UK press as "Rape" but the reality of the charges is a little different. There is no question of consent from either of the women who were bragging about it the next morning on Twitter and one of them held a party in his honour the morning after the alleged assault.

    The case has been thrown out by Swedish prosecutors twice and brought back due to political pressure. Basically he is accused of not wearing a condom, but he did sleep with them on consecutive nights and they are apparently a little miffed about that.

    What really happened to those women I suspect is only really known by them and Julian Assange but any chance of a fair trial has long since passed.

    As for the way the UK has treated him, we can't deport some scumbag who mows down a little girl whilst banned and then drives away cos of his "human rights" but we have no problem with someone who has embarrassed the septics.

    The cables themselves that this whole hooha are about are pretty indicative that the US will say one thing and do another and shows the way that big companies like Mastercard and Visa are in bed with governments.

    Interestingly he hasn't broken any law in the US, they are currently trying to write one to do him on. :evil:
     
  5. Bigrock

    Bigrock Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    agree cbass, thios huy has to be so well connected to get hold of what he has and is continuing to do. The states are chasing him as he knows too much.

    Look at how his allies took down paypal and visa websites when they stopped payments going to wikileaks.

    there is something going on here and its not as simple as the papers are making out
     
  6. CBass

    CBass New Member

    I don't think its as simple as his allies and connections.

    There were a lot of tech savvy kids on the internet who feel very miffed about this whole thing and have reacted accordingly.
     
  7. Sambo

    Sambo To the MAX!

    Well said that man :yes:

    I haven't been following the Wikileaks things that much tbh but it does look like the sex offence is wafer thin. It's about time someone dished out some of these secrets!
     
  8. CBass

    CBass New Member

    My favourite quote about the whole thing was Sarah Palin saying Julian Assange should be hunted down with the same urgency as Osama bin Laden on her Twitter page.

    Someone responded that he should be safe for at least a decade then
    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
     
  9. Sambo

    Sambo To the MAX!

    :laugh: :laugh: Class!
     
  10. foo

    foo You've gotta be in it to win it.

    Granted the witch hunt against him is wrong, however, AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS IT IS WRONG TO LEAK MILITARY AND GOVERNMENT SECRETS THAT THREATEN SECURITY OF OUR COUNTRY AND ARMED FORCES ???????????.
    OK These are "alleged" offences but if there is any grain of truth to them then this man is a Terrorist simple as that.
     
  11. CBass

    CBass New Member

    But that isn't what wikileaks has done, the cables in question don't really reveal anything that threaten the security of our government or armed forces.

    The threatens lives and security line has been trotted out by governments for years when they have egg on their face.

    The information pertains to the US in any case not the UK government but even then it's more embarrassing than security threatening. Things like our US "allies" questioning the bravery of UK troops, or US defence contractors buying child prostitutes for Afghan officials to get contracts.

    The whole lot makes for pretty shocking reading about what the US actually thinks about other countries and how it chooses to do business, it's all about fairness and decency until it effects US policy then it's a big FU to everyone else.
     
  12. foo

    foo You've gotta be in it to win it.

    Ok I will stand corrected on that score then.
    It is common knowledge that the US are a bunch of self opinionated "I am's" and they have made monumental cock ups over the last decade. It is also common knowledge that the British armed forces are the Bravest and best in the world albeit the worst equipped so I fail to see the reasoning on that slanderous remark, but just exactly what good did it achieve making it public knowledge ?
    Furthermore I cannot agree with the publishing of visa and mastercard and other private and personal details on the internet or the scandalous attack on Amazon, Or any other site that a lot of people rely on. Why attack such things to gain sympathy for an individual ? Or is it Wikileaks Philosophy that they are all above the law ?
    I strongly agree with freedom of speech for every individual but I also strongly believe some things should be kept confidential. After all isn't it this freedom of speech the reason we are not hosting the 2018 world cup ?
     
  13. CBass

    CBass New Member

    Wikileaks didn't publish any Visa and Mastercard or Paypal details.

    It's a bit more convoluted and anarchic than that, Visa Paypal and Mastercard stopped taking donations to Wikileaks on the basis that it might contravene some future law i.e it wasn't currently illegal to do so. This however was illegal in itself, so much so the Icelandic government is currently looking at banning Visa and Mastercard from operating in Iceland and taking them to court over it. Amazon was attacked because it removed its support that Wikileaks had paid for off its web servers.

    A group of users from the website 4chan called anonymous took umbrage with this, mainly on the basis that they felt they should be allowed to spend their money how they saw fit and that big business was in bed with the US govt. They didn't really "hack" any of the websites they flooded them with requests until the sites couldn't cope.

    I'm not defending the actions of anonymous , what they did was a pretty surefire way of turning public opinion by inconveniencing the lives of ordinary folk but it is important to realise that they are not wikileaks.

    Wikileaks themselves are not behind the attacks nor was it done to gain sympathy for Assange. They haven't broken any laws, thats part of the problem the US have, what they did is perfectly legal in the US and freedom of the press is enshrined in the first amendment. If the NY times as opposed to some pesky foreigner had released all this information then I suspect there wouldn't be the same drama about the legality.

    As for whether the information itself should be public domain, well in what is probably likely to be the first court case as a result of the leaked cables the family of a Spanish cameraman is looking to sue the US government after a US M1 tank shelled the press safe haven hotel he was staying in and killed him and his Ukrainian colleague.

    The US has denied responsibility for years but the leaked cables confirm that they killed this guy and knew it, do you really think that you could argue to his family that it was better that this wasn't in the public domain?

    As for the world cup, we might have lost it because we exposed FIFA for the corrupt kleptocracy it is, if that is the case I'd rather lose it for evermore and be honest about it than bribe our way into holding it. :yes:
     
  14. foo

    foo You've gotta be in it to win it.

    Strong words and strong opinions.
    Is there any such place as a safe haven in any war zone anywhere in the world ? The Journalist knew the risks so that is a poor argument imo. Surely much better discussed with the family behind closed doors anyway.
    Sorry my mistake then it wasnt Wikileaks who published personal details of Joe public............it was their supporters. Isnt that splitting hairs a little ?
    If Visa,Mastercard and Paypal wish to stop taking donations to Wikileaks for whatever reason they choose that is their right and any criticism of this act is totally hypocritical of the whole meaning of "Freedom".
    As for Iceland, oh yes, the country that robbed UK citizens of savings. They have a lot of right to take the moral high ground dont they ?
    Agreed FIFA is corrupt to the core but Revenue and jobs to the UK economy to me is well worth the effort of perhaps harnessing certain TV programmes until a more appropriate time.
     
  15. CBass

    CBass New Member

    Anonymous didn't publish the details of anyone, they stopped access to the websites in protest. Its not the same thing, so I don't really regard it as splitting hairs.

    Is it there right to stop taking payments if they are breaking the law? What bothers me is that they are obvious patsies to the US govt.

    No there isn't such a thing as a safe haven in a war zone but I think it's safe to assume you wont be shot at by the people who told you to stay there in the first place as that was the US designated "safe haven", then lie about it when they knew full well that they were responsible.

    The point is that the family would never have known this without wikileaks releasing the information, they would have never been told "behind closed doors", they just would have been fed more lies by the US.

    Do you feel the same about the 11 new incidents of friendly fire that UK troops have taken from the Americans in Afghanistan that have only come to light in this set of leaks?

    Do you really think we didn't get the world cup because of Panorama? Or because we didn't grease Jack Warner's palm like everyone else.
     
  16. foo

    foo You've gotta be in it to win it.

    [quote author=CBass







    Do you feel the same about the 11 new incidents of friendly fire that UK troops have taken from the Americans in Afghanistan that have only come to light in this set of leaks?



    [/quote]

    I am very patriotic and fully support our armed forces. I refuse to allow you,or anyone else, to question my loyalty to British forces and find your cheap shot remark very insulting and morally low. I have a number of close friends serving and served in theaters of conflict throughout the world and have lost friends in such places. So the simple answer is No and this is also my last word on this subject.
     
  17. CBass

    CBass New Member

    Sorry if I've offended you, it certainly wasn't meant to be a cheap shot or call into question your patriotism or support of our armed forces, but to be fair I don't think I did that.

    Questioning the people who control our troops is not the same as questioning our troops.


    I've got mates who serve as well, including a guy who was killed.

    The point I'm trying to get across is that this whole thing is about accountability, governments in general are very keen to keep their dirty little secrets from us because the truth of the matter is that by controlling what we know about them, they can control what we think about them.
     
  18. quint

    quint Watch out Emperor Zorg's about

    We all know the Western Democracy's lie, indeed we all do, because society is afraid of the truth, if we had no boundaries and politeness we would be tearing each other apart, I've read numerous posts on here and in general, slating the USA and the European Governments, well that's fine but you have to have an alternative, and I for one certainly prefer what we have rather than a dictatorship like China, I'm all for human rights and freedom of speech and listening to this Wikileaks guy he comes across genuine, however the USA wouldn't want him extradited for no reason, and whatever he has unearthed, I believe that the content would have been better staying behind closed doors - I think we are are on a cusp of a new era, driven by mass media and communication, there has been no other time in human history when information and communication is so easy at hand. The internet reminds me of that other monumental invention during the Renaissance that ultimately lead to tremendous upheaval and bloodshed, and is still relevant today, the printing press - simply by giving information to the masses created (in this case the bible) a whole new religion was created where even a King lost his head - only History will judge whether or not sites like these are beneficial to us, but I rather suspect the negatives will outweigh the posatives
     
  19. Supersonic

    Supersonic Whitby Bass Club

    You're so right. Everyone knows politicians and Govenments lie, maybe this whole Wikileaks thing might just get them to think twice next time they're plotting something sinister.
     
  20. Ian Alexander

    Ian Alexander Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    That's a great post and so very true Iain. The invention of the internet is the modern equivalent of the invention of the printing press.

    Off topic a bit....sorry....but the invention of the printing press was the most important invention of the middle ages bringing education and religion to the masses and fuelling the renaissance.
    I work as an engineer in a Printworks, (printing banknotes), so I'm interested in this stuff..........I know I'm a bit of a fanny!!!

    I like this quotation by Beatrice Warde

    THIS IS
    A PRINTING OFFICE

    CROSSROADS OF CIVILISATION
    REFUGE OF ALL THE ARTS
    AGAINST THE RAVAGES OF TIME
    ARMOURY OF FEARLESS TRUTH
    AGAINST WHISPERING RUMOUR
    INCESSANT TRUMPET OF TRADE

    FROM THIS PLACE WORDS MAY FLY ABROAD
    NOT TO PERISH ON WAVES OF SOUND
    NOT TO VARY WITH THE WRITER'S HAND
    BUT FIXED IN TIME HAVING BEEN VERIFIED IN PROOF
    FRIEND YOU STAND ON SACRED GROUND
    THIS IS A PRINTING OFFICE

    Sorry for waffling,

    Regards Ian
     

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