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Tonights meeting with DEFRA

Discussion in 'Sea Fishing Forum - Shore, Boat & Kayak Fishing' started by Baramundi Bob, Mar 10, 2008.

  1. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Hopefully not Dav. Fingers crossed that they have got the message :wink: :happy: :happy:. Theyll just get the money off your fags anyway mate :alien:
     
  2. mike_

    mike_ New Member

    i am all for bag limits -if guaranteed something like above, licences -NO just cant see any good reason for it. Lets face it there aint much fish left out there and i think we all have to do our bit.

    i am not on any committee and not representing anyone -just a joe public airing his views.

    mike
     
  3. stuartmac

    stuartmac New Member

    Hi Glen
    Your gripe at the NFSA in the past may be right but you cannot say that about the present organisation. All our meetings are Open so non members can attend, obviously they cannot vote but at least they can air their views. I don't see any response to my question "Is this all we can do?" I know you have tried in the past and I have given you my undivided support but as I suggested to Paul K and Martin on Monday night there are signs that the debate is starting to go more our way. So we have got to keep up the momentum. Everyone on this forum should start to lobby their local councillors they are the custodians of the local community and this includes local businesses. How much revenue do the holidaymakers put into the cafe's and pubs let alone the tackle shops. All these premises pay Council tax so whilst I appreciate and support the relevent parties directly effected you have to use the bigger picture to win support. I accept that in Whitby you may well have done this but what about Brid, Hornsea and Filey to name but a few. You have read my response to Smokey he was not alone and the members of this forum have got to put the message out. The charter Skipper from Brid who thought it was a done deal after 31stMarch was not put right in the meeting but I passed across the questionaire with the covering letter so hopefully he will have responded. But has anyone suggested to him that he go and see his local councillor. The chamber of trade should be getting an ear full. When I stayed over after our last meeting and before I came to Whitby the next day I mentioned it to the lady who had just bought the Hotel she had not heard of it. What about the tourist board. Instead of bitching at whether the NFSA or the Northern Federation is best please direct your efforts outwards. If wev'e nothing else to bitch about after the licence and bag limits have been ditched we can come back and talk about them. But the fact we are fighting amongst ourselves only gives comfort to the other side.
     
  4. gwyn

    gwyn Blenny

    Hi All
    Regarding the meeting I was the other person who met with the defra people at the Crown Hotel, As I was chairing the meeting I wanted to know what the format of the meeting was going to be before the meeting started. We arranged this meeting so that the local anglers could find out about the strategy and have their say on what they thought about it and I was pleased to see so many there and so many get their points across and I agree with what you had to say.

    I am also willing to go to all the local clubs and meet with them and I will listen to their comments and answer their questions where I can If I do not know the answers I will find out, I know the NFSA has not got everything right I have found this out since I became actively involved, hopefully this will get better when the Angling Unity gets going this is where all the following:-Anglers' Conservation Association - National Association of Fisheries and Angling Consultative's - National Federation of Anglers - National Federation of Sea Anglers - Salmon and Trout Association - Specialist Anglers' Alliance have gone together to form one body so that all types of angling are represented with one voice, the Northern federation has been invited I have found out but up to now they have not responded, I do hope they will as the anglers of Yorkshire and the North east need to have their say. Does any one know what the Northern federations reply to the RSA Strategy is as I would like to see it, I am a member of a local club who is affiliated to them and have tried to get in touch with them repeatedly to ask what their reply is going to be.

    Every anglers has the right to reply to the RSA Strategy and I hope they do, the Yorkshire Division of the NFSA has it own reply to it which is different to the official NFSA response.

    You have to be a stakeholder to get info sent to you by Defra the last time i looked only two of the Scarborough clubs were stakeholders the Yorkshire division is also a stakeholder

    The meetings of the Yorkshire Division are always open meetings I would not have them any other way and I would cordially invite you all to come to the meetings and tell us what your thoughts and concerns are and we will certainly try our best to help.I also can be contacted by email: nfsayorksdiv@yahoo.co.uk for further info, the next meeting is on 21st April 08 at the Anglers social club starting at 7.30pm
     
  5. Phil A

    Phil A New Member

    This is not fair Glenn. The NFSA has made mistakes in the past. You should have seen how I slated them when responding to their questionnaire.

    To give them some credit they have changed their ways and done their best. They have struggled for funds and nearly gone bankrupt. They issue statements to the press which are not printed. Do you seriously expect them to contact all anglers? They need full time staff to do all this work and there is little money to pay for it.

    The problem is not the NFSA it is with apathetic anglers and those not willing to support the NFSA or any other body to represent their views.

    I'm personally not bothered which group anglers affiliate to as long as they support them and don't expect something for nothing.
     
  6. smokey

    smokey Rockling

    Phil....Would i complain about an angler taking 50 Bass in a session?? I personally have taken only 2 Bass for the table in the last 5 years,every other one has safely swam away.Yet when i see first hand,and hear similar stories about people filling binliners full of undersized Bass around the warm water outflow pipes on the Northumberland power stations,it enrages me,this is common knowledge and it's left to go on.If the powers that be keep turning a blind eye to this,what chance does the lawabiding angler stand?.To answer the question,like i said,i choose to put my Bass back,but thats my decision and my decision only i should still have the right to take them all and not have someone make that decision for me.As for the lads up North wanting bigger and better fish stocks,we all want this,just out of curiosity did the same guys agree when they found out they would have to pay £25 for the "false privilidge" which until the commercial sector is sorted out,is never going to happen.The common angler around our shores combined would take a fraction of 1% of the full TAC from the seas around our country compared to the over 10 meter vessels,we pail into insignificance and are but a drop in the ocean.Lets tackle the ammneties issue.A very high percentage of rock angling around this area is in very unaccessible areas,often under 300 foot cliffs,so if you think you can wangle me an elevator up to the top, my £25 is on it's way.Also if the fish stocks revive and anglers are taking 300lb of fish each a day,it means DEFRA have done their job right,but i honestly believe it's all shallow promises that cannot be fulfilled.I also got the impression that Anthony Hynes thought he was going to have an easy ride on his ride around the country and it was pleasing to see him shocked with the opposition he recieved both in Scarborough and in Northumberland which leads me to think he thought it was a done deal.If a license came in,would it not have to be proportionate to the Fresh Water Angling license fees? as if so,i think you will find the cost of a day ticket is considerably more,£3.50 this year i believe and rising every year,in £10 years time a sea fishing license could be £40 for what??...........tight lines
     
  7. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Maybe Chicken and Egg Phil ?? But if the NFSA put themselves in a situation where sea anglers can actually identify with them they may stand a better chance. I guess it appears that all I do is slate the NFSA, on thier track record its desereved, but I would love to see them make an effort to actually understand anglers and to really start representing them rather than just representing the personal goals of Richard Ferre.

    Phil, you will have recieved (like me) a copy of the NFSA response to the RSA Strategy. When they decide to back a bag limit do you think they stopped to think what impact that could have on our fishing clubs in this area ?or how this would effect the big shore and boat fishing festivals ?. I am also aware of the Yorks divisional response to the RSA strategy - The official voice of Yorkshire. Again support of a bag limit is evident. This decision was made based on the views of around 3 people. Have the Yorks NFSA listened to the Whitby Charter Skippers ? who fear for the survival of their businesses ? have they listened to the voices of the fishing clubs that could be damaged - perhaps beyond repair ?
     
  8. stuartmac

    stuartmac New Member

    Glenn the Yorkshire NFSA can only represent the views of its members. As you say Gwyn has visited your club and I listen to the inshore anglers who I think it was Smokey said are a valuable contributor to the charter boats. Basically we are all listening but we have to represent the views of the members that is why we have open meetings so that all the views can be heard. I don't want to open the old story as I am going against my last post but you expressed a minority view on the draft but I still included it as an alternative in an effort to draw yours and our concerns to the dessimation of the angling support trade. Whilst it was not your proposal in full it did say No Bag Limits and that it would seriously damage the Charter boats and Tackle dealers which is the main message you were voicing. That was the message that went into the Yorkshire Post article because the NFSA pointed the paper at Paul. The article indicates a common support from both the NFSA and the Whitby Charter Skippers Association If the clubs were to join they have a voting right one delegate can vote for a proportion of the club. There is a formula but I wont bore you with that. Suffice to say that you as a member of the Whitby SAC can vote for members who are not there and therefore providing the vote is reflecting the views of the club membership you have a greater say in the policy making proccess.
     
  9. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Ok Stuart,

    You say I represented a minority view and that you can only listen to regional members. Give us some figures. How many people responded to your email Stuart ? and are the responses open for us to see ? How many members has NFSA Yorks Division ?

    In my reckoning the NFSA Yorks has 60 members. Lets say there are 6000 sea anglers in Yorkshire. that leaves you representing the views of 1%. Both you and I know there are more than 6000 sea anglers in our region, and that less than 10 people responded to your email. That leaves you I think as the one representing a minority. A minuscule minority at that Stuart.
     
  10. smokey

    smokey Rockling

    Stuart... The NFSA has clearly shown it's intentions to back a bag limit,as has the Yorkshire division.I fish in the Filey Brigg Angling Society and have been on the commitee for a few years.Each September we hold our annual Filey Fishing Festival which has run from 1922 and very successfuly might i add.Do you realise how many thousands of people have participated over the years? Let me tell you here and now,bag limits,as endorsed by NFSA and the Yorkshire Division will finish it all over night.You claim to represent the best interests and views of local anglers,i strongly disagree with this as correct me if i'm wrong but FBAS has had no correspondance from you and 99% of our members don't even know the Yorkshire division of the NFSA exists,not everyone has access to a PC so how are people supposed to air their views? If you want more members,how about sending some kind of information package to each angling club in the area,telling us who you are and what your intentions are? Like i said previously,bag limits will destroy the FBAS and seriously damage or finish most other clubs in the area so please take this into consideration when i propose at the next FBAS commitee meeting that we do not endorse your organisation,until at least you change your views on bag limits.......................tight lines
     
  11. stuartmac

    stuartmac New Member

    Glen I was saying that in the Committee you represented a minority view and because there are so few members on the committee I included your proposal. There are 170 members approx in the Yorkshire Division my figures are pre subscription increase so I cannot quote exact. The response has been poor in fact abismal and they will be available when the committee decides the next course of action. You have missed the point of my post Glenn. It does not matter how many there are we can only represent the views of our members. What I was saying in the last post is that there are ways to expand that and it does not mean everyone paying £26 subscription. If the clubs became affiliated a) they would be eligible to stand for the committee and b) they would have a proportional proxy voting right so the decisions would be far more representative of the local views.
    Smokey the decision as to whether we are backing bag limits has not been taken currently the members are being asked for their opinion. You make a valid point about the lack of contact. But you may have missed the point in some of both Phil A and my earlier posts. Twelve months ago there was no active Yorkshire Division. Some people suggested that we set up our own organization. I for one argued against this as the NFSA already had a seat at the discussion table and to get accepted as a young organisation would take too much time. Time we did not have. So several of us made approaches and managed to get a committee formed. We advertised the calling of an EGM as best we could bearing in mind we were individuals and had no financial support. The NFSA mailed all the members and whilst accepting that not everyone has a PC Glenn broadcast details on this site. After our last meeting the Chairman e-mailed the Committee and suggested that we should approach the 30 odd clubs in our area. Bearing in mind the Yorkshire area covers from almost Staithes down to the Wash on the Coast and across to Greater Manchester and Derbyshire. Some of the committee expressed the view that the clubs were already members of the Northern Federation but it is a matter for discussion at our next meeting. Gwyn Davies has said he will come to any club that wants to hear from us. I live in West Yorkshire and I am prepared to go to any club on this side unfortunately there are not many left. But in view of your concerns would come to Filey either on my own or with Gwyn.
     
  12. Doc

    Doc New Member

    WTF :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: When did that happen, as a member of the Yorkshire division I certainly don't remember santioning that, nor would I ever, unless a particular fish population was collapsing, then it would be difficult to argue against a bag limit, and foolhardy from an ecological perspective to maintain catch levels. I obviously need to see this document where the Yorkshire division are backing a bag limit, can somebody send it to me. Glenn?
     
  13. smokey

    smokey Rockling

    Staurt, can you please give me and everyone else on the forum a ONE WORD ANSWER.Are,or have the Yorks Division of NFSA suggested or recommended that bag limits are the way ahead.tight lines :happy:
     
  14. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    You have a copy of the same emails as me Stuart. By all means post them up.

    When you've answered smokeys question Stuart. A one word yes or no answer to this one.

    With the future of our fishing clubs and charter boats in mind - Have the Yorks division of NFSA told DEFRA bag Limits are unacceptable ? Maybe Nigel could answer too - with a yes or a no (that way you don't confuse the issue). This is the info Smokey is asking for, but dont try confuse the issue with if's and but's - yes or no will do it :whistle: :whistle:.
     
  15. stuartmac

    stuartmac New Member

    Hi
    The answer is No is to Smokey's question
    The answer to Your question Glenn is No
    But lets not confuse the issue with asking obtuse questions Nothing has been decided on either count
    This is what has been put to members and I emphasise that no decision has been taken which answers the Docs question
    A) Licenses: We are opposed to the introduction of a license on any grounds

    1. As it is a curtailment of our common law right to fish.

    2. It would be detrimental to the economies of all coastal towns and villages especially the tackle industry of those communities.

    3. Would impinge on efforts to promote recreational sea angling to the youth of the area in the sport of sea angling.

    4. The commercial fishing sector have never paid for their licences to fish and now these licences are changing hands for vast sums of money, why should we have to pay for a licence to fish.

    B) Bag Limits: We agree in principle with the NFSA position but would add the proviso that bag limits should only be imposed where there is proven scientific evidence that a species is endangered also if a species is known to be at risk in one area it may not be in other areas, therefore a blanket ban on certain species is unworkable.
    ALTERNATIVE

    C) Total opposition to BAG LIMITS with several species currently on the ICES endangered list the above stance will only serve DEFRA and or the sea fisheries committees to introduce bag limits on the species we catch locally and this could be potentially damaging to the regions charter fleet and fishing clubs. Bag limits on cod will finish fishing in this area as we now know it.
     
  16. Doc

    Doc New Member

    I've watched this thread drift on with some increasing amount of despair, the persistent bashing of the NFSA is becoming both tedious and futile, YES the NFSA were lax in dealing with the north easts anglers in the past, YES the NFSA have been predominantly led by southern anglers, YES much of what is contained within the RSA Strategy will, if it comes to fruition not benefit anglers in the NE, certainly not to the same extent as it would anglers in the SE or SW. Anglers in the NE would potentially be faced with a rod licence and bag limits, which would be a disaster, and totally unwarranted, but........... and there is always a big but (usually our lasses but thats another story :hurt:).

    To be honest, and I say this with a heavy heart, anglers in the NE (I include Yorkshire in this) have historically kept the NFSA at more than arms length, we didn't want to know those southern softies, with their 3 hook flappers or clipped down/up an over/inside out etc. fishing for rockling and pouting. So what we have now is a juggernaut/monster (call it what you will) speeding down DEFRA's highway that will aim to put the needs of the NFSA membership to those in the position to change the present climate of instability in inshore waters, particularly in respect of fish stocks. Of course those requirements or needs relate to what the members want most; more and bigger fish (I think everyone would like that); the Golden Mile (to all intent and purpose we have this anyway, but not the case on the south coast, however, this is not an argument I personally wish to get involved in, as its irrelevant up here and probably would be nothing more than a futile and unworkable gesture elsewhere, the ‘golden mile’ will not happen, forget it); increased amenities (would be nice, but who needs a bog at the bottom of Bempton or on the end of Brigg, wrt facilities at harbours, this should be the responsibility of the local council and not paid for through an additional tax or council levy); improved access (with one or two exceptions - Hull docks & some river marks (Humber) I can't see how a licence fee would help to improve access in our area, unless a stenna stairlift at Hayburn Wyke, an escalator up and down Bempton or a rickshaw station to and from Old Hall are all implemented (might keep the asylum seekers busy).

    What worries me is that we have two vocal protagonists and a few more chipping in their five pennth taking minority/majority positions when they are all going in the same son of a guning direction, whichever way you look at it, gentlemen you are arguing semantics. You are all against a rod licence and you are all against bag limits, what the hell is there to argue about........? The NFSA (Yorkshire Division) has just recently been set up to fight on behalf of Yorkshire anglers, why then are Yorkshire anglers trying to destroy it? To my mind the only reason is because it is part of the NFSA, this suspicion northern anglers have of anything linked to the south coast and the NFSA is what is limiting us the most, you want to change the dominance of southern anglers in the NFSA, then support the Yorkshire division, you want to destroy the NFSA, well other than declaring war on southern England, anglers in the NE haven't got a hope. You/we/they tried to do that many years ago by not joining, that was a big result for us wasn't it, we ended up out in the cold with very little input, if any, to documents that may well threaten our sport/livelihoods/well being etc.

    No, I'm sorry, but at the end of the day those shouting the loudest are doing but one thing, dividing anglers with a common goal, not individual agenda's, everyone is entitled to an opinion, the majority should hold sway, but the minority are equally entitled to express their views. Glenn, you say you have been censored, whilst I agree with your position (wrt opposition against a rod licence and bag limits) I think Stuart has a right as author of the response, to cut that response down to a manageable size, and I don't think the omission of parts of your preferred response depreciate what you or the division are trying to say; That we are against a rod licence and Bag Limits. I could equally request that we (as the Yorkshire division) respect the considerable number of anglers who have expressed a view that they don't actually mind paying for a rod licence, and not withstanding this, the quite considerable number of anglers who do not object to bag limits. That way we have a balanced view from the Yorkshire division, you can have your piece in full, and then we can say that we are also not against bag limits or a rod licence, makes a bit of a mockery of our response, but at least nobody feels they are being censored or not represented.

    Unfortunately, and very sadly to many outsiders, it looks like this is no longer about a sea angling rod licence or bag limits in Yorkshire, but that old nutmeg that’s become such a barrier in more recent times; the way those southern anglers and the NFSA in particular, treat us poor northerners,,,,,,,,,, its a national disgrace. :embarrass: :embarrass: :embarrass:
     
  17. gwyn

    gwyn Blenny

    This is a link to the defra website which gives the info on how to respond to the RSA Strategy, I hope you all take time and respond with your concerns


    http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/sea-angling/letter.htm
     
  18. FireFly

    FireFly Blenny

    Found this bit of info on a site I visit for a bit of news.

    Might show how effective DEFRA are or can be. Don't think it's posted anywhere else on the site. Apologies if it is.
    Take a look
    http://www.harvey-mayson.co.uk/news.html
     
  19. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Nigel and Stuart,

    I think I have made my point throughout the topic so this will be my last post here because like Nigel I am getting rather tired of batting the same worn out ball back and forth.

    You can write as much as you want guys and place as many if's but's and and's into your replies as you want. In reality it's very simple. I will summarise my views.

    1. The NFSA both national and regional have not wrote in opposition to bag limits. Their reply is an open door to DEFRA and SFC's.
    2. The NFSA In Yorks are expecting local fishing clubs and charter skippers to sign up to their organisation.
    3. For our fishing clubs and Charter boats a bag limit is damaging and maybe a final nail in the coffin.
    4.Point 1 taking into account point 3 means that point 2 will not happen. Now the ball is in your court. Leave things as it stands and have opposition from the anglers on the ground, or make a change in policy.

    With regards to Nigels point - I am 1 protagonist who is not trying to destroy NFSA in Yorkshire I am a member of that organisation at committee level (Watch them vote me off now :laugh:) and I am trying to make it work for anglers of Yorkshire. At the moment your policies are just the same as the national body (the one us northerners don't like remember :surprise:) At our club meeting On Tuesday night the Whitby club took the decision not to join NFSA based on this factor amongst others. Yesterday I spoke to Paul Kilpatrick on the issue of bag limits - I get the feeling his members wont be signing up. I cant speak for the other clubs but The feelings of 1 Filey angler have been spoken above.
     
  20. northbayotter

    northbayotter New Member

    -this by far is the most meaningful thing anyone can do

    - I.E. ......RESPOND .... TO....THE.... CONSULTATION...!,



    -as without doubt it must be as blatantly obvious to defra as it is to the rest of us that the N.F.S.A. most certainly does not represent the greater proportion by number of the sea angling public.

    -so it is..... VITAL.... that as the MAJORITY ARE NOT N.F.S.A MEMBERS .....

    -THEY MUST RESPOND AS INDIVIDUALS ....

    as it is r.s.a's only chance

    the responsibility for the continued failure of the n.f.s.a to recruit even a significant number of the r.s.a's to its ranks in my veiw must surely lie with themselves and their policies past and present ,

    and also largely much to do with the lack of publicity from defra which at best seems to be ''minimalistic'' to say the least and seems to be exactly how they are playing it

    having said that what can only be described as total apathy displayed by the majority of anglers has a great deal to do with the current state of affairs.

    the reason why the N.F.S.A and the B.A.S.S. are figuring so heavily involved with the consultation / formulation for the marine bill is that they as groups have shouted the loudest and campaigned hardest for their stated aims

    fact is defra couldn't organise a p$ss up in a brewery, are most definitly not to be trusted

    -ben bradshaw's promises on bass conservation / m.l.s latter turned down by the current minister are example in case one should be needed.

    -as for bass conservation on a local level (yorkshire & north east) the fact that we currently have a new fishery developing is a miracle of nature (and nothing at all do with defra and their 'devil may care' attitude) -how long it will last remains to be seen as despite the fact that this is a new and emerging fishery they dont seem to give a sh+t that we aready have a targetted bass pair trawl fishery here on the yorkshire coast,

    -not to mention the beach netting which is still un-regulated thanks to defra's ongoing failure to confirm the NESFC'S bylaw which would if confirmed would go quite some way towards severly curtailing and bring under their control some of the netting activity at least l personnally find that single fact both abhorrent and perverse in the extreme and fills me with both anger and revulsion and disbelief .

    -,especially when seen in light of the fact that an attempt by the one,. and the same...,

    ......ANTHONY HYNES ..... to... IMPOSE ...a blanket nationwide......BAG..LIMIT...!

    ''by the back door'' -upon anglers in respect of bass ahead of the marine bill which was set out in great detail a request to the seafisheries commitee's association through use of their bylaw making powers last summer! -yet again concrete proof of double standards and confirmation that only commercial interests lie at the heart of defra's list of priorities
     

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