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The Dangers Of Kayak Fishing - Kayak Clothing - A follow on from kayak bling.

Discussion in 'Sea Fishing Forum - Shore, Boat & Kayak Fishing' started by Jellyworm, Jun 7, 2010.

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  1. Jellyworm

    Jellyworm Rockling

    Today a lad (who will remain anonymous), had his first venture out onto the sea on his kayak. Before the launch I asked if he had practiced his self rescues and was assured that his big game could be righted and re-mounted without drama and checked he had a pfd that look like it fitted snuggly and had a wading belt fitted round his waist of his neoprene waders. The lad had no vhf,no flares, no anchor, no drogue but did have neoprene top and one of those blue and white pfd's that I have seen given as freebies by some dealers.
    I had all my usual safety gear with me just in case (drogue,flares radio, tow line,gps,compas.)

    We launched out of Nth landing and although there was about 3-4 of swell it was smooth with very little wind at all and only a small tide. The fishing was very uneventful, fishing the ebb on a small tide as usual a waste of time at Flambro' but at least we got out.

    The sea was like glass but the fish just not playing ball, I bumped 6 fish off, they were just not having it. The new lad managed one just size fish which made his trip.

    About 8pm the wind was just starting to freshen from the sth east and with the flood (what there was ) beginning to push through it was getting just that bit more than I was comfortable playing minder in so we headed in with the promise of a bit of rescue practice in the bay.

    This is the start of my reason for posting this really, once we got back into the calm of the bay and off loaded the fishing gear we paddled out 40-50 yds and I said, Go on then time to get wet and show me these rescues." The lad tipped himself off and the look of shear panic combined with the gasps and the way the pfd was up round his ears was a sight I hope I don't see again.

    So I shouted calmly to him to slow down catch his breath and think about the situation and what he was going to do.Then told him how to right the yak and to climb on.
    Well that was that he continued to panic and gasp so I finally managed to get him to let go of his kayak and hold onto the stern of mine whilst I towed him the short distance in.

    I was gob smacked that the self rescues the lad had assured me he had down was very very much not anyway near where it needed to be .
    We had a chat onshore about how things could have been if he had been tipped whilst out and how much more difficult in a 'real' situation that self rescue would be , I now know that before I will go out with anyone I don't know has the skills down I will be asking for a demonstration as it really doesn't bare thinking about what could have been but grown adults and all that you have to accept what someone tells you when they say they have had the kayak for some time and practiced lots .

    Once back onshore even after just a very short time in the water the neoprene waders,even with a wading belt, had so much water in the legs the lad could hardly lift his feet let alone climb back on the yak or swim. It only confirmed my opinion that neoprene waders are for fishing from the shore and not paddling in. I remember a post on here a while ago about how someone else found it nearly impossible to swim at all in the waders. For the sake of less than £50 for a 5mm farmer john wetsuit, I still can't understand why folk risk it !

    The lad learnt a big lesson today or more like several lessons, one being that he needs to get kayak specific kit that fits well, such as a wetsuit and a better quality pfd. He also learnt that the sea is not like practicing the re mount in a calm warm river.
    Hopefully next time he will be able to show me the climb back aboard before we head out because no way will we be going out otherwise.

    The pfd looked fine fitted snuggly but in use for what it is supposed to do, assist the wearer when in the water, it was crap ! and I have seen several of the members on here wearing the same device, but I ve not seen one of the same for sale in the watersports specialists I ve been in.....not something I would put my life in the hands of !

    Waders...well each to there own but tonight just confirmed what I thought, in a fishing situation they are fine but get into the doggy do do and they aren't !

    Just a few thoughts .


    Cheers Jellyworm.
     
  2. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Re: A follow on from kayak bling.

    Thank god the lad was ok. Not sure how tis relates to bling (Things like fishfinders and gps etc)also not sure what went wrong for him. Ive practiced with the waders and belt combo more than once and never had a drop inside them. My top half got wet but no water inside.
     
  3. Jellyworm

    Jellyworm Rockling

    Re: A follow on from kayak bling.

    I thought you posted Glenn that in the gear you wore that you struggled after doing 5 remounts on the kayak safety day in waders, i might be wrong on that but seem to remember reading that a while ago, if I m wrong then apologies but someone posted it no matter :cool: ?
    Like I say each to there own but when I ve chatted to sea kayakers and people in the shops they roll there eyes when waders come in to the conversation. At the end of the day they are a make do that will one day catch someone out.....sad to say that but it will.

    Feel free to amend the title I was struggling for something to call the post really.
     
  4. MidlandYakker

    MidlandYakker Blenny

    Re: A follow on from kayak bling.

    I have to admit that waders haven't sounded the best idea to me, but I have never tried them?????!!
     
  5. Ramsrod

    Ramsrod Rockling

    Re: A follow on from kayak bling.

    You're probably right about waders being make do Dave but personally I don,t have a problem with wearing them. I,ve worn neoprene waders without a divers belt and still managed to get onto my yak no problem. I think its more to do with knowing what your capabilities are. Some lads struggle to get back onto their yaks when wearing all the right gear. I know I can get back onto my yak as quick as the next bloke. I think more emphasis should be put onto getting back onto the yak through practice rather than pointing the finger at yakkers with waders.
    I'm not trying to promote wearing waders but I don't think I should be tarrred with the same brush as someone who can,t get back onto his yak for whatever reason.
     
  6. Jellyworm

    Jellyworm Rockling

    Re: A follow on from kayak bling.

    Fair play Ray that was why I said each to their own cos it is down to personal choice.......mind you watching the upper body strength you have been gifted with you are not in the same league as most mortals anyway :wink: :wink:
     
  7. Ramsrod

    Ramsrod Rockling

    Re: A follow on from kayak bling.

    Well my waders only have 18" legs so I must have an advantage :laugh: Joking apart Dave, If someone struggles to get back onto his yak with waders he should seriously be looking at wearing more appropriate gear if it aids his/her ability to get back onto their yak. Whatever anyones opinion, it was a lesson learned for that particular yakker which has got to be a good thing. Being competent at re-entry is a must before venturing out in ernest!
     
  8. newdave

    newdave Guest

    Re: A follow on from kayak bling.

    thanks for posting Dave, not getting embroiled in the wader debate all though i agree they are a compromise based on cost rather than suitability, I 100% agree on the need for folk to learn the rescue techniques for both themselves & others.

    New users really should put more time & effort into ensuring they are actually able to cope with unplanned events (capsize)
    As a member of the local kayak club I attend there training sessions which take place at Whykem lakes 2 Tuesday nights every month, Its a brilliant venue & I usually go down & practise my rolls & self rescue in the sea Kayak. I am surprised that more people contemplating this sport don't get involved with there local club as its cheap & you get to use there kit, I know they are not really aimed at SOT's but they are recognised by the BCU & there would be no problem taking your own down.

    As for the Bling, Glenn afraid you started it :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    Spawney
    The king of kayak bling :tease:
     
  9. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Re: A follow on from kayak bling.

    No problem with debating bling Dave. But In the original post, clothing was on the essential list, not th bling list.
     
  10. kipper

    kipper New Member

    Re: A follow on from kayak bling.

    i agree with dave that the right gear for the job should be used-a wetsuit being fine.

    the other thing is swim fitness, i believe a good level of swim fit is a must. for instance panicing is a cert killer, if one can swim well then a certain amount of panic control can be used.

    just by practicing swiming in a wetsuit in the sea is a starter for confidence building.
     
  11. LEE     howard

    LEE howard Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    big lesson learned yakking yesterday

    hello all ,big thanx to jellyworm for taking me on my first sea voyage. launched at 5 ish at flamborough, headed out and felt ill pretty soon, brought my chip butty up in style. fishing was slow but i got 3 small cod which i was very happy with. after fishing we went to do recoveries,this is were it all went wrong for me, ive practised it in river calder and had no trouble at all, in the sea cud i hell as do it,dave pulled me in aswell as 2 gallon ov water in my waders , big thanx. panicked alrite. took me about a hour 2 come round , i new then how ill ad been. i learned a lot ov lessons yesterday mainly how inafficent my safety gear was, my pfd was up over my head, waders like a lead balloon, left my anchor in car. so am of to roho today to get a wetsuit and proper fitting pfd.flares and order a vhf. big thanx to jellyworm for not naming me in his earlier post but thought ad better come clean. big learning curve for me what i do in river i cudnt do in sea. need to get back over soon and practice my recoveries in sea with you experienced lads before am fishing again. money in wallet no good if your at bottom of sea. thanx lads
     
  12. mattylamb

    mattylamb Rockling

    Re: A follow on from kayak bling.

    Lee, I'm sorry about your experience and I'm sure that you have learned a lot of lessons from it. Its very good of you to come on here and tell us what happened. I'm sure it will help others to get all the safety gear/training sorted before anything else.
     
  13. NICKB

    NICKB Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: A follow on from kayak bling.

    Sometimes it takes something like this to realise where you are short with equipment and thankfully you're alright Lee, at least you had good sense to be out with Jelly rather than assume you know what you're doing and have gone out on your own. You live and learn in life and you're spot on when you talk about money in pocket being no good. Hopefully it hasn't deterred you too much and you'll be back out soon.
    Nick
     
  14. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

  15. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

  16. mick webster

    mick webster Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    That thing with the bouyancy aid happened to me, so i fitted a pair of nylon straps with side release fasteners that go between my legs and fasten to the belt, no probs now!
     
  17. jody

    jody New Member

    Fair play Lee for coming forward, and offering a little bit of background too, but maybe a little too much info with the chip butty.

    One thing I noticed with the dry suit, it keeps you dry, but when you're in the water you rely on what you're wearing underneath it to keep you warm, and the sea is a pretty cold place to be bobbing around in your underpants even when the sun is shining. This also made me want to take a deep breath, which is what I though may have happened to you.

    It's a good lesson for all us new kayakers to make time and keep practising
     
  18. Jellyworm

    Jellyworm Rockling

    I ve watched from the background of late not posting much but watching with interest and in some respects envy Dave how you have progressed from those early days like the time we met up at Flambro a couple of years ago and there is no doubt that your experience and to a degree your opinions on safety have changed as you have progressed.

    I look now at a seasoned paddler who has really got to grips with the safety, skills and equipment to cope with what is thrown at you. Well done anyone new to the sport wouldn t go far wrong following your advice.
    As Ken knows I have been getting a twitchy credit card for a true sea kayak and am just trying to find out if i can juggle shifts etc to find the time to go along to the Hull Kingston Kayak club because I want to develope my skills in the kayak so I am better equipped to deal with what might be thrown at me out there.

    I know that this next bit will put some peoples backs up but looking at the kayak angling explosion on our coast and seeing some of the things that I have seen and read I think it is only for the good grace of God, if the big fella exists, that we haven t had a tragic incident in our area.......yet !

    The chat I had with a very experienced sea kayaker and bcu coach was an eye opener. He was asking why was there not more approaches from sit on top kayak anglers to the coaches for how to improve skills and cope with sea conditions etc. He said that what most people had said to him was " Well I only go out in good conditions, stay close in and so I'm alright." He was gob smacked that people 'got by' in that they could just manage in the most favourable conditions, what if those conditions changed, did they have the skills to deal with them ?

    I ve searched through posts on here and have found several from people who have owned a kayak for a year or so two at most , saying "You'll be fine in.......as long as you only go out in calm conditions and stay inshore." So those people live in a world of false security never experiencing more challenging conditions, never learning the skills to deal with them....until one day BANG ! It all goes wrong.

    As I say well done Dave (Spawney) the skills you have developed and the knowledge along the way is a credit to your enthusiasm and a great example for those interested in the sport to follow. I like that you take out kit to deal with the worst case scenario even on the sunniest flat clam days.
     
  19. carpyken

    carpyken New Member

    Good stuff Dave, you welcome to KKC anytime, I coach most monday evenings in the pool plus occassionally through the week for organised groups in the outside pool. There is also a short session on a saturday for beginners but you'll soon want to progress from that mate.

    I put up a thread showing exactly what I took out with me all of the time including the type of clothing I would wear regardless as to where I was going or for what duration, it was mostly dismissed.

    http://www.whitbyseaanglers.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15374.msg134555#msg134555

    Ken
     
  20. Sambo

    Sambo To the MAX!

    Sorry to hear that Lee found himself in trouble, I guess it's better to have these problems 50yds from shore rather than 2 miles off in a choppy sea. Saying that you can easy drown 50yds off shore! Glad to hear you intend to do more safety training before doing anymore fishing, I really should do some more self rescues as it's been a while since I last practised.

    I can see why non fishing kayakers would find it odd that most kayak anglers don't mind going to see wearing waders and don't seem interested in going to kayak schools. Most of us got into kayak fishing as a relatively cheap way to get fishing afloat, the fishing comes first and the kayaking is a secondary byproduct. Obviously I'm not saying this is the correct way and definitely not the safest way to look at it but it might example why some have gotten into trouble.

    You can have all the bling in the world but if you panic when you get into trouble then the odds are against from the start, I feel most can be safe on the water at relatively low cost but commonsense is important.

    I wore waders/cag for my first year or so of kayak fishing, did plenty of self rescues (plus the odd surprise rescues) and never had a problem with hardly any water intake. I now use a drysuit but I would have no problem going back out in waders, again each to their own though.

    Ken, I can only guess your thread kinda got dismissed as your setup seems like it's a million miles away from what the bulk of us can financially achieve but anyone can take something from it. I have redsigned my layout slightly and take even more extra clothing/first aid after reading your thread. Not that I didn't before but I now have more of it and more organised.

    I guess when you first attempt kayaking/kayak fishing you don't fully understand just what dangers are out there (weaver fish for example!!), there is a lot to take in but everyone progresses. Know your limits and practise your self rescues, oh and if poss don't go out alone :wink:
     

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