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The Angling Trust And Anglersafloat Embraces Kayak Anglers

Discussion in 'Sea Fishing Forum - Shore, Boat & Kayak Fishing' started by carpyken, Nov 27, 2010.

  1. SAGE

    SAGE always trying...... some say very trying !!!!!

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers



    Why would you expect anything different. They are a shower of S*i*e
    [/quote]

    it is getting to that time of year when miracles are supposed to happen!!!!! but apparently not!!!
    cheers
    Paul
     
  2. Dorado

    Dorado New Member

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    B-Bob, The ONLY way we could get the course officially recognised was through the Angling Trust. The Angling Development Board is NOT the Angling Trust, it is an internationally recognised training body.

    I can't purposrt to know every inside tie up, but I do know that of all the avenues we went down to get the course to a point where we were not going to get sued by another organisation and so that more poeple could have the benefit of that kind of tuition, the Angling Trust were there to help.

    I don't purport that the old SOT course that we did was absolute. It could be improved, of course, but it was what we put together on a wing and a prayer and were able to deliver in ONE DAY. More information could be imparted over 2 days, we had enough people complaining they couldn't get the one day as it was. It was a condensed, compact, list of items that we felt would be of benefit to anyone getting started in kayak angling. For what it was I don't think we did too badly.

    Now, we have,THROUGH the Angling Trust, been given access to a recognise training body that will help us develop a much better syllabus and give us the approval that we could not get any other way. As it happens, I think the Angling Trust are developing themselves as they fight with the job that has been handed to them.

    Many people seem to think that the AT is an all new version of the NFSA. It isn't. The Angling Trust was in existence before the NFSA fell apart. I could find out, but I can't remember what they were doing then...when the NFSA (which was the Nationally recognised body that oversaw competiton, and things like the England fishing team :sleepy:) fell apart, wen tbust, whatever it was that happened to them..they weren't there anymore to do the job of managing competitions and all that guff. Suddenly an organisation was needed to fill the void that was left...the Angling Trust found themselves with it. They had no experience of anything like this - they are learning though. people have come and gone...one thing you can say is, if they make a mistake and it is pointed out IN THE PROPER MANNER, they do sort it out. No organisation is going to take any notice of poorly worded rhetoric and swearing type complaints. Make a proper complaint and if ti is found to be so, it is sorted out. People who weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing, were kicked out. So, yes, it is still finding its feet - give em a chance. Give us a chance. Instead of just complaining and slagging them off fo rthing s that happened before, under different personnel, why not make concrete suggestions.

    i could find fult with anything you care to mention....it is more difficult to come up with the better option. If there are things the AT should be doign that they aren't they are willing to listen to CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTIONS. They also act on them....our course being a case in point. We had no track record to go on, not really. They came and saw what it was we were trying to do, they liked it and felt it needed a leg up and they have put their faith in Paul and I....I think that is a very courageous act on their part.

    I can't make rivers accessible. If the rivers list isn't on the access list, then it isn't on the BCU/BWB access list either. We don't formulate that one. That is down to the riparian owners and leaseholders of the fishing rights - so go and moan at them. It isn't down to us.

    Wat there IS available is at a very attractive price - compared to what you would pay through other channels. If it isn't any good to you, don't buy it. Is that a reason for people who have got rivers they can fish/paddle not to join?

    There are lots of things that are available under certain circumstances. Airmiles with Lloyds credit card - but I have a Nat West one so I don't get them. I have two options: stay as I am and not get airmiles, or change to Lloyds and get them. It is a similar situation. Lloyds folks get a good deal (???) I don't - but is that a reason to not collect Airmiles?
     
  3. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    Not war and peace again Simon, please nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
     
  4. carpyken

    carpyken New Member

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    My questions.

    Who appointed Anglers Afloat to be spokes persons for our hobby?

    Who voted for the Angling Trust to represent us?

    What do the Angling Trust know about kayak safety at sea and who is advising them?

    Are the people advising them qualified to do so?

    Are the coaches / instructors trained to the correct level and endorsed by the UKCC?

    If so were can we find the course syllabus and guidelines?

    How do you expect to train coaches up and down the country to this level in just a few months when it would take a BCU UKCC applicant in excess of 12 months minimum to get to this level. This is not including all the prerequisites such as first aid, 3 star training & assessments in more than one discipline, tidal navigation & planning courses and of course the matter of gaining hundreds of hours of logged 1st hand coaching experience.


    I'm sorry but if your putting coaches out there to train people in open water sea kayak (angling) with anything less than this then you are leaving yourself wide open and selling anybody who goes on this 'introductory' course short.

    Ken
     
  5. Dorado

    Dorado New Member

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    I still can't do the quote thing, so I have had to just copy it.
    My questions.

    Who appointed Anglers Afloat to be spokes persons for our hobby?

    Who voted for the Angling Trust to represent us?

    What do the Angling Trust know about kayak safety at sea and who is advising them?

    Are the people advising them qualified to do so?

    Are the coaches / instructors trained to the correct level and endorsed by the UKCC?

    If so were can we find the course syllabus and guidelines?

    How do you expect to train coaches up and down the country to this level in just a few months when it would take a BCU UKCC applicant in excess of 12 months minimum to get to this level. This is not including all the prerequisites such as first aid, 3 star training & assessments in more than one discipline, tidal navigation & planning courses and of course the matter of gaining hundreds of hours of logged 1st hand coaching experience.


    I'm sorry but if your putting coaches out there to train people in open water sea kayak (angling) with anything less than this then you are leaving yourself wide open and selling anybody who goes on this 'introductory' course short.

    Ken

    And now I can't see the posted questions because they are at the top of the page. :blindfold:
    1. Who appointed AA etc?

    Nobody - it just so happens that 2 AA members came up with the idea of a safety course and have chased it up becuase of the way they were treated by another organisation and were unwillingly to be bullied. Anglers Afloat are not, and have never been spokespersons for our sport...who says they are?

    2. Who voted for the AT to represent us?
    No idea - they were given the job by the Government in office at the time. Which Minister did it I haven't a clue.
    There are voed for people on the committees though.

    A similar Q - who voted fro the BCU to represent us? Any of you lot reading this vote for them?

    3.What do the AT know about safety at sea etc?
    Probably as little as I do with 47 years of seagoing experience, a 2nd mate, deep sea, foreign going ticket ...blah blah.
    Who is advising them? Nobody. They have nothing to do with that side of it. They are just providing the access to those that do. The Internationally recognised traning body that will do all the Instruction of the Instructors to the required, recognised level.

    4. see above. Yes they are...Internationally. As high as BCU recognition.

    5. Endorsed by UKCC etc question?
    NO - because there aren't any yet. BUT, they will be!

    ^. Course syllabus etc?

    No idea. It isn't fully written yet. Any suggestions on what it should include - bear in mind a 1 day course for delegates, like the SOT course. AND, not paddle based - kayak angling based. So do not compare to BCU coaching courses becaue ti si totalyy different.

    Last question - lost coutn...How do you expect to train etc?

    I don't. The Training body is taking care if that. When they tell me what is involved. I'll know.

    In essence Ken. You saying that the old SOT course we ran was of no use whatsoever to anyone because it sold them all short - because it did none of the things you ention. BUt I think it did make those that went on them safer than they were before. Even you are on record saying it was great and how useful it was...etc etc. Now suddenly it isn't because it isn't BCU standard.

    The kayak angling course will not be BCU standard either - It wil be kayak angling standard. Encompassing all those things that kayak anglers will find useful and help to keep them out of troubel and enjoy their kayak angling more.

    I have been riding a motorcycle on the road for 37 years. i do about 50,000 miles a year in all weathers on mine. I do a bike safety course every now and then though, and I learn a littl ebit of useful hints, tips, road craft - get pulled up on bad habits that have crept in. You know, a bit of a sharpener to help keep me safe. There are those who would say I have enough experience (former 5* Star Rider Instructor back in the 80s) and do sufficient miles to not need it.....I still learn stuff every time though and if nothing else, it makes me think about what I am doing.
     
  6. bucko

    bucko New Member

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    Why bother moaning at them- they most likely don't have access for a reason such as the potential detriment on the fishing that provides said riparian owners with valuable income.
    I'm all up for shared resources but, when someone decides to paddle through the sea trout pool I've been waiting for hours to fish and writes off my night then the relationship becomes one sided.
     
  7. snapper

    snapper Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    I'm from the East coast so please don't regard me as a southerner. I'd just like to go on record as someone who will NEVER be represented by anybody.
     
  8. Dorado

    Dorado New Member

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    Try telling that to your local town councillor, county councillor, MP....whether you like it or not. they represent you.

    The Foreign Secretary represents you in foreign affairs.

    We are all represented by someone at sometime, we probably don't even know it half the time.
     
  9. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    Hi Ken,

    The Angling Trust and the NFSA before them appointed themselves, thats what they do, they then tell the government that they represent sea anglers. One question that never gets answered is this one :

    Ignoring the fresh water anglers and only counting the affiliated sea angling clubs as 1 member each (The AT count every club member as an AT member despite the fact the club only signed up for the insurance and 90% of the clubs members never even heard of the Angling Trust). How many Sea Anglers are in The Angling Trust and what percentage of the nations million sea anglers does that represent. Then ask how many individuals attended the last Yorkshire meeting of the Angling Trust and where you can find the information on what they are doing on your behalf Without you knowing.

    Then ask yourself how a body with less than 1% of the sea angling fraternity as actual members decide that they are representative of the views of the nations sea anglers.

    As simon says, Someone voted for them, but what he forgets to say was that 99% of the sea angling community don't even know who these people are let alone how to vote for them (By the way, you have to pay to have a vote too).
     
  10. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    Sea angling has survived thousands of years without anyone sticking their beaks in. Any patronising ar$ehole claiming to represent me can pi$$ right off.
     
  11. snapper

    snapper Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    Try and be relevant Simon, we're talking about AT and 'interested parties' related to the matter in hand not the whole world and it's brother.


    Totally meaningless and worth nothing to anyone other than the Angling Trust then.
     
  12. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    What is a kayak angling standard ? and who decides what it is ? Am I considered up to standard or will I have to be brought up to speed ?

    PATRONISING CRAP Thats spoiling my enjoyment of this site and my hobbey once again. You can wedge your standards where the sun dont shine :tired: :whatever:.
     
  13. Dorado

    Dorado New Member

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    Not at all. When you see what the course offers, if you think there is something worth you doing it for...do it. If not don't.

    Like me on the bike safety course. Many would think that after all these years riding, and 50,000 miles a year that I was up to standard. I think it is worth me getting a bit of a prod and sharpening me up - so I go and do it. Nobody makes me. I feel better because of it and I am not so arrogant to think that I can't be improved simply because I ride th ebike a lot...I ride it very badly, a lot.

    This isn't like a driving license. It is there for people who want it - newcomers mostly. There will be some who think there is an aspect they want to do better. So maybe they will come and do it. Maybe they can ask one of their mates - nobody stopping them doing that either.

    The standard will be for the instructor, not the student. So those going on the course have some confidence that what they are getting is of a certain standard. Like driving instructors, I expect some will be better tahn others - that is just human nature. They can be taught to the same standard, but some will be better at imparting knowledge than others. But at least when a student signs up for a course they will know the instructor has been trained to the required standard.

    Why do you think you will have ot be brought up to speed? But you did at one time.
     
  14. ducky

    ducky maybe one day...

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    i did tell them stright to the point. and that cock that use to run the country. all they want is your money and thats it. and then they fuck you over with it when they got it
     
  15. snapper

    snapper Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    So what kayaking qualification will the instructor be trained to before taking people on the water kayaking and by which body if NOT the nationally recognised UK canoeing and kayaking organisation the BCU? It's going to have to be somebody qualified after all.
     
  16. ian 07

    ian 07 Guest

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    It's a load of bollocks I havnt been on a course I'm not going on a course my friends spawny and quint and ken kept me right we keep each other right when were out on the water it's all about common sense if it's to rough you don't go out simple as long as you have all your saftey gear and the most inportant thing is being able to swim and a radio
    Cheers Ian
    Cheers ian
     
  17. mattylamb

    mattylamb Rockling

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    I was very impressed with the course that Paul and Simon ran at Runswick and would recommend it to any newbies entering the sport. I think the guys have only good intentions with this as long as they have suitably experienced and qualified people in place.

    I dont agree with the Angling Trust however but as long as people have the choice to either go on a course or not, without joining the AT, then thats fine by me.
     
  18. johnhelen

    johnhelen New Member

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers


    sports uk , it has the highest recognition nationally
     
  19. johnhelen

    johnhelen New Member

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

     
  20. Sambo

    Sambo To the MAX!

    Re: The Angling Trust Embraces Kayak Anglers

    I was thinking the same thing when I saw Ian's post.

    Spot on bud. I don't need to join and I have not intention to, but like you pointed out that is down to choice. What I am worried about is a few years down the line this becomes compulsory.
     

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