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Storage Hatch Issues - Ocean Kayak - Kayaking Today?

Discussion in 'Sea Fishing Forum - Shore, Boat & Kayak Fishing' started by carpyken, Oct 12, 2008.

  1. mattylamb

    mattylamb Rockling

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    thanks for coming on and telling us your story bagpuss, and glad to hear that you are ok, it must have been a very frightening experience, especially as you were on your own.
    I'm sure you will have learnt a hell of a lot from that.

    It goes to show that there must be some kind of issue with these hatches, and I'm glad we are getting the covers like you did.

    Its certainly made me think more about preparation for any trip - ensure hatch is tight with seal fitted when i get it., check clothing is all correctly fitted so that if i do go in i don't take on water, and in future have a VHF at hand.

    how did the alarm get raised for your rescue?
     
  2. mattylamb

    mattylamb Rockling

    Re: Prowler Neoprene Hatch Covers

    I have to have one Ken after what's been discovered recently, I would say they are essential. Price is daylight robbery of you ask me. they should be provided as standard.
     
  3. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Re: Prowler Neoprene Hatch Covers

    Yes I will have one and dont mind paying the going rate but like has been stated they are expensive and should come as standard really. You shouldnt have to pay extra to be safe.
     
  4. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    Information on the hatch cover is here :

    http://www.whitbyseaanglers.co.uk/forum/north-east-coast-fishing/prowler-neoprene-hatch-covers/new/#new

    Thanks to Ken for checking this out for us.
     
  5. carpyken

    carpyken New Member

    Re: Prowler Neoprene Hatch Covers

    Ye Matty they are expensive. i have just rang Andrew again, as he says they are imported from New Zealand and manufactured in small numbers. We had a lengthy chat as to why the ingress of water was happening and neither of us could come up with a real answer. Some of us dont experience it while others do. Some ideas were pressure on the hull causing it to 'blow' of its seal causing it to be compromised, or straps not tight enough. They have changed the hatches on the later Tridents and Scuppa pro's so the straps assert more pressure downwards rather than just across the hatch. He even suggested a piece of cork or similar between staps and hatch to assert more downward pressure but again you do have to be careful as you may just end up flexing the middle of the hatch down compromising the edges and seal.

    I'm seeing Snapper at weekend who also works for OK, I think he may bring a couple for us to try out

    Ken
     
  6. newdave

    newdave Guest

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    just checked my hatch & i reckon those straps have stretched, i had tightened them as hard as i could some time ago & taped the spare webbing up, now I could easily lift the hatch off the seal without unfastening and have managed to pull up almost an inch more which now keeps the hatch firmly down. in design terms the straps are poor, as they don't really force the hatch down onto the seal & i reckon the cover is worth the £30 for peace of mind. Its still a good idea to check the tension on the straps every time, usually the last thing you do when launching is stow the c tug in that hatch. recently i did some self rescue drills with Marion in her Marlin which has similar hatches, my P13 stayed dry but she got an inch or so into the Marlin. that is no big deal really as the Marlin has 2 bulkheads but it shows that its not just OK that have this problem.

    I think everyone will now agree though that the temptation to rush out with your new kayak and start fishing should be resisted for at least one trip.

    taking it on some enclosed or safe waters just paddling and learning the rescue drills would be a wise investment of time. :yes:
     
  7. mattylamb

    mattylamb Rockling

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    agreed Dave, infact despite me having 15 - 20 successful trips and no dunkings I'm doing that before I go out again
     
  8. Sambo

    Sambo To the MAX!

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    That is a scary what happened to you Bagpuss, it was difficult enough help Dave out but with good team work we sorted it out relatively quickly. If by yourself then it is a very scary situation to be in, glad you are ok and survived to tell the etale.

    I know it has been mentioned by Ken regarding a sot course, I was talking to Dave about it the other day and I think a group of us should at least go out into some calm water and practise self rescue and possible group rescue at some point possibly next week. Don't take any fishing gear along, that way we can focus 100% on what we should be doing. Obviously it will be well worth doing the sot course with Dorado but in the meantime I think we should organise something between us one afternoon/evening. There are lot of us kayakers around here now and last weekend was a reminder of how bad things can go and how quickly as well.
     
  9. bucko

    bucko New Member

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    Blimey- sounds like you lads had a bit of a scare- glad Davo and the rest of you are alright!
    Reading this makes me think the missus was right when she saw me looking at kayak ads and said "You're 100% land lubber- forget it"!!
     
  10. bagpuss

    bagpuss New Member

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    Guys
    Like I said I didn't go out alone but rather stupidly stayed out for an extra hour alone.
    Don't go out alone. I was only 100 yards off the beach when I capsized, but due to the wind & tide I was half a mile off when picked up. Stay with your kayak as I did, even if you try & swim, tie a leash to your kayak. It's more likely to be spotted than you, plus it's a buoyancy aid. My new Icom radio failed due to a battery/charging problem, which is now sorted. Test your marine radio before you go off the beach, I didn't because our local coastguard station were on industrial action & only dealing with emergency calls, not taking routine radio traffic that day. My mobile phone was saturated & unusable. My flares I had forgotten. But luckily I had bought a 122db whistle from Millets & attached it to my pfd. After some time in the water I spotted a couple walking their dog on the beach (which was a remote ish beach) & eventually raised their attention with the whistle. I was bobbing up & down in an 18" swell which isn't much, but a hell of a lot when only my head & shoulders are above the water. Dehydration was a massive problem because a wave over the head every so often, four under water dunkings on capsizes & blowing on a saltwater soaked whistle all took there toll as well.
    I was lucky & took most of the safety precautions needed, or so I thought, but look what happened.
    What you really need to remember is that this is a dangerous hobby & no matter how much of a expert you think you are, the sea even on a calm day can make a fool of you & if your really unlucky it can be your killer.
     
  11. smokey

    smokey Rockling

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    Surely Ocean Kayaks will recall all the suspect covers and supply all owners with the upgraded one.If it doesn't do it's job,it's a flawed product which should be replaced Gratis,storys like this could be very bad for sales.Glad to hear you all got back safely though :happy: tight lines
     
  12. bagpuss

    bagpuss New Member

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    The hatch is held on with two straps as we all know. However these cannot be fastened really tightly as there is some give in the material. It's OK whilst you are the right way up & a wave over the top whilst paddling or launching is fine as the weight of the water is pushing down on the plastic hatch cover. The problem is only when the kayak is upside down & the weight of water on the up turned hatch cover & the poor seal around the hatch opening, then the water can get in through the slight gap. However the quicker you right the kayak the less water goes in. All hatches on all kayaks are susceptible to this (if they are designed the same way) unless a neoprene cover is put over the hatch up stand. Interestingly the earlier prowler 13 kayak had a neoprene cover under the hatch cover as standard (I am told of an early prowler 13 owner) now they are an extra on them. Incidentally the neoprene cover costs just under £20. Whatever kayak you have go & buy one & if you cannot get one for your kayak let me know & I can put you in touch with a dealer who can get them purpose made to fit any kayak hatch.
     
  13. quint

    quint Watch out Emperor Zorg's about

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    Sorry to hear about your adventure Bagpuss and glad your ok, however I shall still go out alone as I'm confident of my own ability and am quite aware of the dangers involved, I would never tie myself to the kayak, you say it's a buoyancy aid, but looking at this thread that theory is questionable to say the least, if your tied to it and it goes down it's goodnight Vienna - I would also never undo the neck seals of the dry suit, there are many people that frown on waders and the belt saying it would fill with water, but these people have never tried out the theory for themselves - as for people not being able to get back on to the yak once tipped I would say they are unfit to sea kayak, and thats not mean to sound dis respectful, but it could prove fatal - OK want there arse kicking big time over these hatch seals, they simply aren't up to the job, is it going to take a death for something to happen????
     
  14. bagpuss

    bagpuss New Member

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    Quint
    I was only saying that if you attempt to swim to the shore DON'T leave your kayak. I had a six foot leash that I attached to the kayak & my pfd whilst I attempted to swim ashore. All other times I would NOT consider attaching myself to the kayak. I also have two divers knives, one strapped to my leg & one strapped to the kayak just in case I need to cut myself free. I think that you will find that a sot kayak full of water will NOT sink.
    Secondly I have self rescued whilst wearing a WET suit & in a controlled environment. It is totally different in a dry suit full of water & after getting tipped out of your kayak unexpectedly & with a kayak half full of water.
    As for going out alone. Well it's a free world & you can do what you want. You might be one of the experts I referred to earlier I don't know.
    I will type part of the letter I received from the chief coastguard in response to my thank you letters that I sent to all involved.

    Quote "Yours is an interesting example of how what might be regarded as reasonable equipment provision & actions can be to no avail when things start to go wrong at sea. I am sure you will have reasoned by now that continuing beyond the point that your friend left you was probably the critical decision. Our recommendation with all personal water craft operation is that people should be accompanied so that mutual aid can be provided"

    Quint what if you get a treble hook off your lure deeply embedded in your hand whilst landing a lively bass, half an hours paddle from a safe landing spot? Are you going to be able to paddle back with one hand? Can you raise help? Or if you had a friend with you could he not have towed you back in to safety or raised the alarm or assisted you in another way?

    You can go out alone, I have decided wisely I think not to in future.
     
  15. carpyken

    carpyken New Member

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    A lively topic and we all have different views. Any kayak or canoe association, yes ie the BCU, will always tell you never to go alone. But I know a few of us do enjoy going out unacompanied. We do take precautions, communicating with the CG while afloat - I remember one of the guys on the other end of the radio questioning me once -" you going out alone? Just you ?" but after giving my passage plan off I went :happy:


    Out of interest, were do you kayak fish Bagpuss?

    Ken
     
  16. carpyken

    carpyken New Member

    Re: Angling Kayak - Ocean Prowler Neoprene Hatch Covers

    I will try and wangle a discount if we get an order for a few. £30 is what OK recommend but will try several retailers prior to ordering to get the best price.

    Was told today, the reason OK dropped issueing these covers as standard is that they are quite tight - anyone who has put a splash deck on a sit-inside will know and so it makes them awkward to actually get back on while afloat - not that you really want to be opening you hatch afloat unless you really have too.

    Ken
     
  17. Sambo

    Sambo To the MAX!

    Re: Angling Kayak - Ocean Prowler Neoprene Hatch Covers

    I'll deffo have one Ken, my hatch was down pretty tight and I took on about 4 gallons in a very short amount of time. Matty will tell you I didn't wait long to right my kayak. As far as I'm concerned they should be standard in the first place, they should just up the rrp by £30 if they are bothered about costs.
     
  18. quint

    quint Watch out Emperor Zorg's about

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    I agree in an ideal world we'd all go out in a group but I aren't hanging around if the tides right waiting for someone else to be free, and I know a few on here with the same view point, that said theres many a time we've been out and the groups got scattered some times by as much as a mile, on the treble front old Spawney last year had that exact problem and he got in ok I believe, well enough to show the oriental doctor how to pull it out with pliers :laugh:, it's like you say Bagpuss it is a dangerous hobby, I'm just saying people should be aware of their limitations
     
  19. bagpuss

    bagpuss New Member

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    Quint

    Yes I have gone out alone in the past & in worse conditions & nothing happened. That particular day I went out with a mate initially. I just make the point that it was a lucky & I mean lucky escape for me. Others should learn from it & decide accordingly. I have decided that my life is worth more than a couple of missed kayak fishing trips a year when one or other of my two regular fishing buddies can't make it.

    Bassyken

    I reside on the beautiful Isle of Man
     
  20. newdave

    newdave Guest

    Re: Kayaking Today?

    Errr yes is answer to that question Bagpuss :embarrass:
    http://www.whitbyseaanglers.co.uk/forum/north-east-coast-fishing/fishing-is-dangerous-dont-look-if-your-of-a-nervous-disposition/0/

    just to prove that there is not many daft things that have not been done, my main lesson from that little episode was to take a pair of sharp sidecutters & dont trust some junior doc who can barely speak english to help. a syringe with some lignocaine, might be hand in the first aid bag aswell :laugh: :laugh:
     

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