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Redcar Pier

Discussion in 'Non Fishing Chat' started by lochbois, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. NICKB

    NICKB Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    Thanks for the comprehensive reply Brian.

    I read that the funding is as follows : £2,823,000 from Redcar & Cleveland Borough Council, £2,534,000 from Regional Development Agency One North East, £4,655,110 through the European Regional Development Fund and £940,000 from the Local Enterprise Growth Initiative.

    I won't vouch for the validity of the figures but if they are close then it's worth questiong where almost £3million from RBC comes from when the council budget was already cut by @£23million by the Lib Dems.

    The biggest problem for me is exactly whats being debated here, quite a few people thinkthey know whats going on but the councillors and politicians have allowed the true facts and figures to become 'fudged' so much that the whole issue is cloudy to say the least. That in itself leads me to think all is not as it should be.
    Does anyone know, of the 7000 people supposedly canvassed about the development how many were in favour/against and whether they were exclusively Redcar residents?

    Nick
     
  2. NICKB

    NICKB Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    Think this needs to be bumped into 'non fishing chat' now. Mods?
     
  3. brian carragher

    brian carragher Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    The council money is money thats borrowed on the open market not from the rates and not from the government and is essentialy a mortgage paid over 25 years

    To get approval to borrow money an application has to be submitted to treasury seeking approval and permission to borrow the money, no approval no money and if theres any doubt about a scheme or the scheme is to be called in by the Sec of State then permission to borrow is denied

    One of the criteria used in determining the application to borrow funds is the councils future ability to repay any mortgage so our council must have the means to repay over a 25 year time frame otherwise the scheme would fail

    Biggest thing to remember here when looking at the 2.3 million is thats the figure for the tower and the Hub and the buying up of the old sites and the land clearance and all of the associated hard landscaping that the council are responsible for in addition to the new sea defences
     
  4. brian carragher

    brian carragher Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    Should read 2.8 million council borrowing and the petition that was submitted to the council was not accepted due to the number of signatories who came from outside the area
     
  5. NICKB

    NICKB Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    Thanks Brian.

    [/quote]One of the criteria used in determining the application to borrow funds is the councils future ability to repay any mortgage so our council must have the means to repay over a 25 year time frame otherwise the scheme would fail[/quote]

    I assume then that we, as council tax payers are guarantors for this loan. The council borrow it and if we aren't paying enough already, increase our rates to pay it back?

    Another thing is who will make up the financial shortfall if this project comes in over budget?

    Nick
     
  6. brian carragher

    brian carragher Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    We are guarantors for any scheme the council borrows money for wether it was council house building financed under a 25 yr mortgage building bridges new roads new schools as was so whats the difference

    Contracts are so I'm led to believe ready to be signed with penalties against the construction firms against over budget and programme
     
  7. NICKB

    NICKB Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    I could be wrong but IMO the 'difference' is that many feel transport improvements, education and housing projects are far more worthy of the council borrowing money than projects dreamt up on a whim and 'driven' through by people with their own political agendas. This project is fast turning into a political ego trip for our local councillors who I suspect know that if the local people were truly represented it would see this project dissolved.
    I can just see it now if it goes ahead the next debate will be whether to call it the Dunning Tower, Abbott Observatory or the Sheelagh Clarke Spire!!! Either way it won't be tall enough to fit their arrogant heads in.

    These people are supposed to represent us but are so bogged down in political one-upmanship they won't listen to anyone.

    Nick
     
  8. brian carragher

    brian carragher Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    Hmm

    Treasury approval, One North East approval, LEGI approval,European development Agency, hardly seems to be a whim

    The tower represents only one very small part of the funding arrangements for the scheme in its entirety and yet you and a few others seem transfixed by it

    Why is that?
     
  9. Stevie

    Stevie Blenny

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    lochbois i think he was calling me a nugget. The rocket idea was tounge in cheek and you wouldn't build it in a built up area.

     
  10. lochbois

    lochbois Guest

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    Hello Steve what a shame the people of Teeside didnt get the chance of haveing a Pier.
    Werent the Foundations left over from the origional pier.
    The debate is continueing in tonights gazette maybe us nuggets should push harder for the East Pier at Whitby.
    I lost some gear in the kelp on that side of the pier but i can still remember getting a six pound cod from the East pier.
    Great memories for me :happy:pB
     
  11. Stevie

    Stevie Blenny

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    There's foundations from 2 piers but probably not up to scratch now. I fished Whitby east pier extension over twenty years ago and loved it. Lets hope one day it might reopen.
     
  12. big cliff

    big cliff Rockling

    There is nothing wrong with Redcar a couple of Battleships couldnt have put right over the decades , we have always had a council that had no
    interest in the town and im afraid building a vertical pier [ i wonder who dreamed that one up ] will only still give a better view of what is essentialy a DUMP , Ive heard its to be called Dunnings Folly :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
     
  13. NICKB

    NICKB Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    I think (more than) a few people have taken an interest in this for many reasons. For me the stubborness of the pro faction to acknowledge those with reservations is one reason. I was under the impression we lived in a democracy!!! :no: It's like a lot of things in life, if you have a legitimate reason for not agreeing to something the pro lobby quickly resort to the lazy argument that you don't want progress or that you are living in the past. It's often the case that the pro lobby for anything shout the loudest.

    The fact that they tried to submit a petition full of tourist signatures says it all.

    Nick
     
  14. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Someone has reported this topic to me. Why is it, the moment Im busy, someone starts a war. Please lets not descend into personal battles. I am on my Holidays in Italy and enjoying myself. I dont have time to trawl through the forum to check whose upto what. But if on my return I find out people are causing problems on this site I will delete thier account. Hopefully one of the site mods can keep an eye on things for a while.
     
  15. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Lets not have any fallings out lads. Im on my hols so cant keep an eye on things, but do me a favour and be nice to each other.
     
  16. brian carragher

    brian carragher Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    "It's like a lot of things in life, if you have a legitimate reason for not agreeing to something the pro lobby quickly resort to the lazy argument that you don't want progress or that you are living in the past. It's often the case that the pro lobby for anything shout the loudest.

    The fact that they tried to submit a petition full of tourist signatures says it all
    ."


    The petition with the outside signatures that the council rejected was AGAINST the tower

    Anyway its all a bit academic now as consultation, deliberation and planning approval have all been granted so all we're waiting for now is to see who's won the tender or who, if anyone is a preferred developer and with the passage of time we'll see what transpires

    I'm not saying the consultation process was the greatest, far from it but the time to voice concerns was before any planning application not just before they build it
     
  17. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    Havent the time to read this. Is it fishing related ? If not can I shift it to non fishing area, and also ask you to be polite to each other just to keep the status quo.
     
  18. brian carragher

    brian carragher Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    Stick it on non fishing stuff will you Glenn

    Its got sod all to do with fishing
     
  19. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Re: Sod Redcar pier. Build one of these

    Cheers Brian
     
  20. brian carragher

    brian carragher Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Stick this one on non fishing stuff too Glenn and if you merge the two all the better
     

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