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Esk Hydro- A Potential Threat To Esk Migratories?

Discussion in 'North East Fresh Water Fishing' started by bucko, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. bucko

    bucko New Member

    There is a link to a recent letter in the Whitby Gazette further back in this thread.
    Trout & Salmon have received letters and there are some very efficient people looking into this at present.
    When you scratch the surface there is a lot more going on here- including a massive waste of public money.
    And for those wanting to invest their nest-egg/retirement fund on such a scheme I would suggest you read the disclaimer on their website :whistle:
    "Viva Hooky Street" :wink:
     
  2. Teesdale

    Teesdale Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Public waste of money is'nt the word Bucko, i don't know the figures for other schemes but the one proposed on the Lancashire Lune at Halton has already being granted £330 000, this is just for the feasibility study to see if it is worth while fitting said object. And as has been said there is hundreds of these schemes been proposed all over the country, thats a lot of money been splashed about.

    Mention making Green Eco energy to the government and they will throw money at you even in these hard pressed times.
     
  3. bucko

    bucko New Member

    Its shocking Teesdale- a massive, financially and ecologically unsound experiment being played out on the nations rivers.

    Heres the wanton destruction of mature trees around the fish pass- which was virtually shrouded in foliage before this work commenced. (from Esk Valley Energy's website)

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Teesdale

    Teesdale Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    What a mess, it beggers believe Bucko, it must be time the EA were relieved of there duties of looking after our rivers with all the s**t that is going down nowadays.
     
  5. noj

    noj Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    I am very dismayed at the thought of this turbine being built on the esk. It looks to me that the only way forward for a salmon/ seatrout angler in the UK is to move abroad. probably the same even for trout/ coarse fish anglers, these turbines will also affect the other fish as well.

    the cormarants might find it beneficial to hang around them for minced fish supplies initially - but as fish stocks become more denuded, even they will start to suffer.

    I feel I have made a mistake moveing back to the country of my birth - we just seem to be constantly exposed to scams/ corruption for the get rich quick brigade in this country. Common sense definitely does not prevail here. When I look at these hydro schemes, I immediately think of a book, I read in the 70's, about ineptness amongst the people who manage to squirm their way in to positions of responsibility and power, called the peter principle. Has anybody else read this book - you will see the similarities immediately. Many people can see the massive cost, low yield and environmental impact yet it is still being forced on us - obviously somebody will be making some money out of it, and the people who will be making money out of it wont care about the envirnment, even if they claim it is a green project. We know better. The people who seem to worm their way in to these posts, certainly dont seem to have the well being of the communities, ecconomy or environment as their driving force.
     
  6. Teesdale

    Teesdale Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Yeah it's a disgrace what's going on, i only wish i hadn't already renewed my Salmon licence, if things carry on in the same vain i defiantly won't be renewing next year will just go for the course licence.
     
  7. noj

    noj Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    I am going to tangentially mention the tees barrage here with relevance to esk hydro

    i have recently written a letter of complaint to my MP ( a stockton on tees MP) about the barrage. and he thanked me for bringing the matter to his attention his reply was worded to suggest that he was unaaware of its effect on migratory fish but that he would look into it.

    I would therefore greatly urge - those who can write to thier local MPs on the matter of esk hydro, to make sure they are aware of it and youre feelings on it. I will write to my own MP and minister for the environment about it. But I can not write to the MPs for the whitby and esk valley area who will be much more relevant to this issue. based on the reply i have had to my letter regarding the Tees- I would urge you to make the effort and contact all relevant parties, the EA, local councils, local MPs, DEFRA, minister for the environment

    Amnesty international members write letters on behalf of prisoners of conscience, in some cases they have no effect. In some cases they help keep some people alive, even get them justice and release from captivity and torture. which suggests the letter can be a powerful weapon if used. one of the problems with anglers is thier public voice is to weak!

    confucious didnt say a drop in a pool will send ripples to the edge, and enough drops may create a wave - but he might have
     
  8. harrythecod

    harrythecod Rockling


    What a distressing photo, the people doing this should be shown before and after
    when they see what they have done , they should be made to return it to
    its former glory, even though it will take a few years , bloody idiots,
    cant they see what they are doing .
     
  9. bucko

    bucko New Member

    'Minced fish' as you put it is only one very small factor in this 'project'
    Do some research on the construction at Settle and then come back and tell me this isn't going to have an impact on stocks.
    And you've got to look at the fact that they are choosing to abstract water a waterway that doesn't get a lot of water anyway.

    As for salmon becoming depleted- poaching, disease and netting at sea are to blame- not poor management or poor policing as you put it.
     
  10. noj

    noj Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    i would vote with Bucko on that one skunkhead

    to start with i have been led to believe that the esk salmon run has been extinct or near extinctionon on at least one or more occaisions, that necessitated restocking policies - think they were carried out by the esk fisheries assosciation - one time restocked with tees salmon and 1 time with ribble salmon - (one time was about 1900 not sure when the other one was) i think both times poaching was to blame - perhaps bucko could shed some light on this one.

    small river environments can be very fragile- and it is very easy to destroy a fish population- I used to fish the small scottish tyne at haddington, and the locals told me that many years ago the river was depleted of brown trout by poachers, in one case it is believed one poacher netted virtually the entire river. The locals told me that the river never recovered its full head of brown trout after that.
    A small moorland river like the esk; that is certainly not the most fertile in the world and frequently short of water, is going to be vulnerable to anything that deisturbs the ecosystem.

    The turbine will have multiple effects on the system -including water levels, the different flow of water that will be created, will cause the fish confusion and difficullty in finding the fish pass, and also vibration - we all know fish dont like vibration, effectively they are mounting a very large engine in the water. the most common sense exepectation would be that it would distrub aquatic life.

    additionally i have heard of a study being carried out at one weir/dam that was reducing the passage of migratory fish depite what was believed to be adequate fish passage - the study is thought to have found that the vibration created by the man made structure was distrubing the fish causing them to shy away from the fish passes- however the results of the study never saw the light of day, so this is only a rumour - but the results were never published, so it may be presumed that something was wrong and either the cause couldnt be found or it didnt suit the instigators of the study to publish the results - either way something is rotten in the kingdom of denmark

    As to mother nature always finding a way - yes she is very versatile and tenacious; with life forms on some of the most desolate, remote, infertile, inhospitable locations on the planet. But that does not mean a species can not become extinct- the history of the planet and evolution is a history of extinction. Mankind has extiguished more than its fair share of species as well. The destruction of a salmon population on one small river and the ramifications for the environment are meaningless to aboout 99% of the population of the UK. As is the destruction of the rain forests - if people dont care about the "lungs of the world" why would they care about the esk
     
  11. bucko

    bucko New Member

    Its quite easy to determine how stocks have collapsed in the past and are still at a critical level.
    Have a look at the report published by the WWF that states as much.
    However, what you are saying reads like those that poached weren't to blame for their actions as they weren't policed enough- which with all due respect is twisted.
    Anyone who has taken vast amounts of fish from any river system where stocks aren't what they should be has played a part in that decline- and to deny it would be ridiculous.
    But, getting back on topic- read up on the hydro scheme at Settle and see what its done to the salmon run there, which is a hell of a lot bigger than any Esk run.
     
  12. noj

    noj Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    hi skunkhead & bucko

    when i cited the poaching as causes of fish depletion in the esk and haddington tyne it was only an example to show that rivers can easilly be depleted of fish. and compared to some of the other effects we have as humans - industrial waste, sewage, water extraction it doesnt have all thier ecological ramifications. The reason i cited poaching specifically was because we are discussing the esk, and it was I believe large scale poaching that did the esk in, in the past.

    when blaming the lack of policing for the effect of poachers on a river - I think that the blame must be placed entirely on the shoulders of the poachers just as the blame for pollution must lie squarely on the shoulders of polluters. Poaching is a crime - according to the law it is a crime of theft - I believe it is a crime of greed, people take and take, without recourse to future stocks, well being of the river - or to put it in a bigger picture, without recourse to the rest of the world (including the other humans in it). But then yet again we and the various legislating and policing bodies are also culpable for tolerating or turning a blind eye to paoching and over exploitation of fish stocks specifically, the environment or resources generally.

    mother nature doesnt always find a way - we can pollute, obstruct or deplete to such an extent that populations become extinct - we have extinguished multiple species and are still doing it - once they are extinct they are lost and they never come back. some of these species were once so abundant, people thought they would never end, that they could never become extinct. if we create impassable obstacles on a river we can extinguish migratory fish on that river for as long as the obstacle remains impassable - wether it be physical barrier, chemical etc - it doesnt even have to be an absolute barrier, but a barrier that prevents enough repopulating migartory fish passing to get the population over a certain critical level, if only a few fish manage to get past the barrrier, even in a small river like the esk they may still have difficulty finding mates. There needs to be good enough conditons so that enough repopulating fish can enter or return every year so that even the small or large catatrophies mother nature her self throws at a species does not destroy the population completely, very simply a flood or a mud bank collapsing can destroy redds. if the population is not large enough this catastrrophy can destroy the population.

    As for mother nature finding a way - there is dabate whether the sahara dessert is man made or not, certainly it is believed that men and the activites of their grazing animals contributed to the formation of the dessert from a savanah, and are continuing to contribute to it despite the increasing rainfalls, we are the reason why the sahara dessert is growing in the area. left alone in a couple of centuries it could recover. you could think of any river, esk including as a possible micro sahara dessert for fish life. The haddington tyne brown trout still hasnt recovered from its exploitation, despite record breaking catches. The newcatle Tyne still has not fully recovered from its depletion through pollution, every summer large numbers of salmon are still distressed or die in the estuary - some authorities suggest this is due to the deoxygenating pollution retained in the silt. the heavy metals could be there for hundreds of years. who knows how good it may become in years to come, if managed properly. Even if all barriers on the tees were removed today, although the migratory fish population would rapidly increase - i don not beleive it would fully recover in my remaining lifetime or even possibly in the lifetime of the next generation.

    the fact that mother nature is tenacious and versatile does not mean that we cant as humans extinguish salmon on the esk for as long as we want- and we dont even have to be trying - it can be just as by product of us exploiting another resource, in this case hydroenergy. one of the problems with human beings is our poopulation is no longer constrained by the controls of mother nature and we no longer respect the balnces mother nature has put in place to control or help other species.

    sorry for being long winded
     
  13. bucko

    bucko New Member

    Once again a serious topic turns into a barrack room lawyer explanation of the law regarding poaching and a couple of digs at 'True Blue Anglers'.
    There is theft in the eyes of the law and 'moral' theft- as in stealing stock from those that pay to fish for it and future generations.

    Seriously- this is a serious issue. Lets get it back on track.
    You are on a hiding to nothing here as has been explained before.
     
  14. bucko

    bucko New Member

    http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/letters/response-to-ruswarp-scheme-1-4437862

    http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/letters/a-risk-too-high-1-4438328
     
  15. bucko

    bucko New Member

    A letter has been published in this months Trout And Salmon :whistle:

    To give you a bit of a better idea of what has been happening with regard to this- parties with interests on the river have been pro-active since the inception of this scheme and have taken advice from The Atlantic Salmon Trust, Fish Legal, The North Atlantic Salmon Fund and The Salmon & Trout Association.
    All of which advised them to oppose the scheme until more is understood about Archimedes Screw implementation at the head of a tide.

    This is one of just many factors but it should be remembered that Esk Energy envisage a series of turbine being installed throughout the Yorkshire Esk.

    There is more information available on the River Esk Action Committee's sterling work in opposing this scheme but as most people find 'technical speak' a little daunting I can break it down into 'bite size' chunks should forum users want it.
    I am not speaking on their behalf- simply supporting their efforts in the face of massive political will.
     
  16. bucko

    bucko New Member

    Latest update is that work has been delayed on this - with contractors due to arrive on 28th May.
    I notice their website has been updated with a cleverly worded, but not entirely accurate page on 'Fish' there.
    For instance- "The type of turbine we have chosen is recommended by the Environment Agency for locations such as Ruswarp and it has been proven to be fish friendly by independent research carried out on salmon and trout rivers like the Esk."

    Now that really isn't the case due to the fact one has never been installed at the head of the tide on a salmon/sea trout river so nothing whatsoever is "PROVEN"

    Fish aside- it seems the project will cost more than orginally anticipated due to changes in rules on work undertaken near railway lines- essentially meaning that the connection to the National Grid is not in place.
    The contractors installing the project have also been in the news this year after a judge at Bradford Crown Court fined JN Bentley £106,250 for its “significant” health and safety failings following an accident that sadly resulted in the death of an employee.
     
  17. Davo

    Davo Rockling

    Sounds like they make there own rules up under the "green" umbrella Ian. I just wish i could have my own way against people like these, or should it be parasites, because that's all they are in my book.
     
  18. bucko

    bucko New Member

    Sandbags over Ruswarp fish pass when the very important Summer run takes place is the latest development in this farce!
    Complaints to the EA are forthcoming.
     
  19. Dav

    Dav Rockling

    Shocking isnt it . they want bloody cutting open .
     
  20. bucko

    bucko New Member

    http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/letters/article-contains-misleading-claims-1-4663085
     

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