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Century BB tip ring Problem with braid

Discussion in 'Sea Fishing Forum - Shore, Boat & Kayak Fishing' started by incodwetrust, Dec 22, 2014.

  1. incodwetrust

    incodwetrust Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Finally decided to give my BB a go with braid and fixed spool, with not good results ?

    60 lb Power Pro, to 60lb Ultima leader, with a 'Allbright knot'....knot nice and neat, and tight.
    Using the Mono as a rubbing leader, hence only 60lb.
    BB is original MK1 which I have had for a while, before they became popular, and have only used for distance on the beaches with a multi.
    First cast just a gentle overhead lob to get a feel, and straighten the new line on the new fixed spool reel, as I haven't cast a FS this big for 30 odd years, and never with a leader!
    Second cast gave it a bit, went O.K ish ?
    Third cast gave it a bit more and ...bang, cracked off with a load of braid wrapped in tip ring ?
    Checked it couldn't find an obvious problem ?
    Fourth cast, made sure 'Allbright' was as neat as I could make it, gave it a good umph ! and cracked off again, same debris in tip ring ?
    Repeated again.....same result ?......
    Ran out of leader...so tied braid direct to rig....made four casts with no problem ?
    So.....I know a lot of lads on here have developed the BB & braid combo....has anyone had the same problems.....I have thoughts that an old style 'Tulip tip ring', may sort the problem ?
    The original ring is small compared to my other rods....do I need to change it for a larger one ?
    Is it the knot,.... the tag 'End Step' of the leader impacts the rings directly. I have used the 'Allbright Knot' extensively for attaching leaders to flylines with no problems as the thicker material, 'Fly Line', is down stream of the flow through the rings.

    Any help, or thoughts / advice on this matter much appreciated!
    Thanks in advance,
    Mel.... ;)
     
  2. limpet

    limpet Blenny

    It seems to be a common problem when using a mono leader with braid.... Try switching to a 100 lb braid leader it takes a bit of getting used to but get a lot less ring wraps
     
  3. crabadabado

    crabadabado Blenny

    Mono leaders seem to come off in big coils and spin quite a lot compared to braid, seems to spin your end trce up as well. 100lb braid leader will reduce ring wraps, as it is a lot softer.
    Cheers Col.
     
  4. Jellyworm

    Jellyworm Rockling

    If its a load of line in the wrap it sounds to me like you have possibly over filled with braid or have wound it on not under enough tension. Soak the braid in water then wind it on under as much tension as you can. It sounds like it is dragging loose coils off on the cast and make sure that it is under filled by a couple of mm .
     
  5. robq

    robq Rockling

    If you persevere with mono leaders it's important to make sure that the leader knot is positioned at the back of the spool before casting ;)

    Its probably much easier and less hassle to adapt to 100lb braid leaders though :)
     
  6. Bassplugger

    Bassplugger Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Yeah like all the lads say it's the mono coils giving you problems and the knot your using is not really good for size you should use the GT knot as you don't have to bend the mono at all its just braid wrapped around the straight length of mono or the improved albright is smaller than what your using. I tried it once and then changed to braid leader 100lbs @0.50mm so it's not thick at all. I have a 1000 meter spool of 100lbs I can give you a 100 yards of it if you like I'll wind it on to a greased weasel spool for you and pick it up I don't want any money for it I just like to see people fish hassle free. And I'll even knot it for you and you can watch me but I put my leader on 5 weeks ago and fished all sorts of ground and I'm still on the same leader so 100yards will last if you want to pm me your details and I'll either see you when you come over or I can meet you when I go fishing just drop me a pm.
     
  7. dabcatcher

    dabcatcher Blenny

    sorry to jump on someome elses thread.

    what knot are you lads using to connect your braid leaders.

    i,m using either 30lb or 60lb powerpro mainlines and an 80lb spectra leader.

    i,m using a grinner on both lines. 6 turns on the thicker leader and up to 9 turns on the thinner main lines.

    would an albright work on these braids to give a smaller knot. i,m more worried about slippage.
     
  8. robq

    robq Rockling

    I use back to back grinners with 5 turns on the thick line

    I double the thinner line over though and treat it as one strand to tie the knot, I usually use 6 turns on this.
     
  9. sandeel

    sandeel Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Mel the braid to mono will always cause problems,because the braid comes off that quick.tip ring size to me is abit of a grey area to me because your last 3/4 rings on your rod tip are smaller this is were your problem occurs then ends up at the tip.
    Iam onto my second season with braid and i still get the odd crack off.my set up is 50/65 lb mainline .50 90lb braid leader.i found when first started your technique has a lot to do with it also but every one has there own opinion hope this helps.
     
  10. Bassplugger

    Bassplugger Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    The gt knot or improved albright knot are the ones to use they are so small yet so strong but I wouldn't use the grinder it's not a great knot for braid. If you have a android phone download KNOT WARS from the play store it has every knot known to man for joining braid and gives the knots a score out of 20 but also has a animated video that shows you how to tie the knots and I find its very helpful especially when your just starting on braid and are unsure of how to tie the knot correctly. Regarding cracking off's you shouldn't get any unless your hitting the cast to hard with a very small drop! Since using braid I have a longer drop to compress the rod tip and my casts are slower because you don't have to pick up the stretch in mono as braid don't stretch so everything seems much quicker on the cast and I think any rod struggles to recover quickly enough to cope with braid and that's what's causing your cracking off's sandeel just slow things down and as well as having a hassle free cast you also improve your distance with braid. I think the changeover to braid is not as simple as it sounds it's so different to mono in every way from knots to actually striking on a bite!!! You don't need to strike you just lift your rod on the bite and that takes a lot of doing when your used to hitting a bite quire hard for the past 20 year with mono. I have been using braid for years with my bass fishing but bloody hell it's a different kettle of fish when codling in the rough or clean ground and you definitely have to change the way in which you fish and it takes a few seasons before you are familiar with the set up and actually enjoying using braid as I am now. The fight from a fish is brilliant on braid you feel it kick it's tail and nod it's head you also feel any rock or snag do its all good you just have to give it time and learn everything about it.
     
  11. 3be2

    3be2 Blenny

    <i>60 lb Power Pro, to 60lb Ultima leader, with a 'Allbright knot'....knot nice and neat, and tight.</i>

    Do you need the leader?
     
  12. Sadung

    Sadung Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

     
  13. incodwetrust

    incodwetrust Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Firstly...many, many thanks to all that have responded to my question !
    It has been, both, helpful, and very informative.
    Jelliworm: I know what you mean, but I learnt the dangers of overfilling braid spools many years ago when it first came into coarse fishing. The debris was what braid was flowing through the rod, always collected in the tip ring, which suggested, to me, that was where the problem was manifesting?
    I read some of your previous posts on fishing FS & braid on rods ringed for multi's. How close do you have the reel to the first ring ? I am having problems getting my head around the fact you say close ? ( i.e. Large coil dia. coming off the reel, being drawn down to a smaller ring size, would suggest a longer distance would be needed ?).
    Bassplugger: Sir, you are a Gent ! Thank you for your kind offer, I may yet take you up on the 100yds ? I have ordered a load off the net, but don't expect quick delivery with it being Xmas. Going to see if I can pick some up in a tackle shop in the meantime ?
    I know the 'Improved Allbright' and will give it a try. I only used the 'Allbright' as that was what was recommended in the booklet that came with the Power Pro I'm using.
    What you say about the slower action makes sense, but when you say longer drop, what length is longer to you ? I was using 6-7' for a simple overhead, are you using a mini pendulum ?
    3x2: Do I need a leader ? I was just following some of the suggestions on here, which suggested the need for a 'Rubbing Leader'. I know from previous experience with braid, that it doesn't like abrasion in any way, something to do with the multi-filament cross sectional strength. I would say it makes sense, especially if you are powercasting, when braid goes, it goes !

    Thanks again,
    Mel....
     
  14. lawsy

    lawsy Rockling

    Only use braid leader with braid mate
     
  15. Jellyworm

    Jellyworm Rockling

    In answer incod, I use multi rung rods with braid, both low reel and high reel. With the braid leader it doesn't make any difference. I backcast with fixed spool and braid low reel on a multi rung 14ft rod....no issues. I also use fixed spool standard high reel position on several different 13ft and 13ft 10 rods again no issues at all. Once you've used braid leaders and experience the lack of problems you'll leave mono to braid well alone....it took me a while and a lot of braid and different rod set ups to realize that braid to braid is the simplest solution to the leader problem.........But as already mentioned use what works for you or you think is right...I don't want anyone to think my way is the only way...it works for me with all different casting styles and means every cast or near enough is fishing for me.....that's what's important for me ;) ;) ;)
     
  16. incodwetrust

    incodwetrust Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Update: Secured some 100lb braid, mixed a gt knot with a grinner....All O.K.!
    Fished a full session without mishap, very clean through rings, even when given some real stick...off the ground, big OH thump....no problems !
    lengthening drop to 8-10' definitely helped smooth out the cast as well !

    Many thanks again to all who helped !

    Mel.....
     

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