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Bussiness advice Would Be Appreciated Please

Discussion in 'Sea Fishing Forum - Shore, Boat & Kayak Fishing' started by Baramundi Bob, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    I keep getting asked to do photoshoots for peoples businesses and Im really unsure how much to charge.

    I always do pics free for friends but increasingly Im asked for stuff for peoples businesses, eg restaurants, guest houses etc.

    Can any of you business people out their give us a clue on how much you would expect to pay for some good quality pics of your business.

    Or if your a photographer how much would you charge to go to someones guest house and take pics for them to use in a brochure or on their website.
     
  2. BigPauly

    BigPauly Tina Turner _ Simply The Best

    Hi Glenn

    Professional photography is one of the services which I offer as part of my design agency business.

    You need to be looking at about £60 per hour for starters.

    We charge a basic rate of £480 per day which basically equates to £60 per hour for that type of out of studio photography.

    For that we also put all images on to a CD or DVD (high res files) and provide a printed contact sheet for reference.

    Some of the larger photography companies will charge a lot more but I recon if you work on £60 per hour, 2 hours minimum, then you will be competitive as a business that offers photography as a supplementary service.

    Good luck.

    Cheers

    BP
     
  3. CAB78

    CAB78 Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    A friend of mine was in a similar position about 3 years ago - to cut a long story short he has gone from being a hobbyist to doing a few pics for friends and family in between work to quitting his job and going from strength to strength.

    When he first started he looked around at other local photographers prices and pitched himself a fair bit cheaper. He explained to the people that the reason being was to build his experience and portfolio etc. From word of mouth he became busier and busier. Over time he grew his portfolio and prices increased. He still tries to pitch himself around the same prices or just under the local photographers but tries to offer more in the service.

    If I were you I'd look at local photographers prices and charge less with the reason being experience and portfolio building - they then also don't expect too much from you just in case things go t!ts up for whatever reason but also try to offer that bit extra for the money I.e full set of originals on cd etc??

    Trouble is for pro photographers, especially wedding photographers, brides etc tend to step away from the cheap photographers as they automatically think they must be crap and would rather assume paying top whack automatically guarantees you quality when that's not necessarily true.

    Not sure jf this helps or not but just what I've seen....

    Ps have you got a flickr account, these can be a good way to show people your portfolio and spread the word??
     
  4. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    cheers guys, some really top advice there. I did a job for someone a year or 2 back and charged them £40 for the photos, they then rang me and complained the price was too high so I ended up doing it for £20.

    At that point I swore they wouldnt do it to me again. My camera equipment cost a fair few thousand quid. Then you have to keep it maintained. Ive just had a bill for £200 for a camera repair.

    Im not massively interested in working as a photographer as I just love it as a hobbey, but when Im asked I dont want to have to give up my time just to earn a little pocket money. Id rather be fishing or having fun with family and friends. So if Im gonna give up my time I want paying properly.
     
  5. BigPauly

    BigPauly Tina Turner _ Simply The Best

    Hi Glenn

    Whatever you do - Don't do it for nothing!

    You need to make a living and remember that doing it too cheap will only cheapen peoples perception of how a good a photographer you are.

    There will always be people who will think that you are too expensive - these are the people that you don't want to be working for anyway.

    Charge the right money (the going rate) and give the right service. Don't think that by charging less than other photographers that you will get more work because in the end you will loose out.

    Have confidence in what you do and what you charge for you service.

    Cheers

    BP
     
  6. lawsy

    lawsy Rockling

    Glenn don't sell your self short if you believe in your work and the quality of your work charge your price and don't give in and don't do mates rates it's a business mate in the end not a charity everyone has there bills to cover lots of people want everything for nothing nowadays don't give into them bud charge your price do the job well like you do and you will be fine bud
     
  7. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Cheers Ben, Thanks for that mate. I do mates rates because I value my friends. I would always do a cheaper job for a friend, but that's where it stops now. Too many people thinking they can have stuff for nothing.
     
  8. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Had some top advice of a few photographers. One has said start at £170 for the job and go no lower than £140. That sound nice to me. Im fed up of giving my time to people for next to nothing.
     
  9. E.F.C. FOREVER

    E.F.C. FOREVER Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Dont underestimate yasrlf glenn.....u know what ya worth and how good u are at summat .... and I think cab78 is speaking a lot sense there like

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
     
  10. E.F.C. FOREVER

    E.F.C. FOREVER Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Sorry ben didnt realise u had oosted thst but seems everyone has the same thoughts goid luck withbit mate

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
     
  11. cps

    cps Rockling

    glen
    I have been told many times that that invoice carnet be right or that job only to have the customer return for more over charged work :laugh:
    set your rate and stick to It yes mates rates are ok for friends but not for customers
     
  12. ijakk

    ijakk Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    In my experience starting a business is all about building a reputation, and if you can provide quality service at a reasonable rate you will always pick up work from those that charge the going rate. Many businesses will not be willing to, or able to pay £60 an hour, especially for an amateur (no offence), many people will just attempt to do it themselves but if you can keep the costs down and position yourself below the professional outfits you will pick up work that otherwise wouldn't exist, this work then helps you build your reputation, then you can look towards increasing your prices, depends how serious you are about it.
     
  13. stickman

    stickman There's a difference between fishing and catching!

    Having seen lots of your pictures Glenn - you have a natural talent :cheesy:

    Don't sell yourself too cheaply - but if you're not VAT registered remember to take that into account when comparing prices with those who are. Also be very aware that if you are getting paid for something you ARE a professional in the eyes of HMRC and they will want their share as well.

    That goes for anyone (like me) who turns a hobby into a business - HMRC has spies looking out for people who advertise and if you are not registered (as a business or self employed) you are liable to be investigated. That's true - it came from an HMRC representative several years ago when I had just set up in business. Always remember to put money aside to pay taxes or you can come undone in a big way :cry:
     
  14. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    No worries about tax. I make self employed returns every year. This site, real Whitby, Whitby web design and anything else I do are all registered for tax under Glenn Kilpatrick sole trader. Always have been.

    Sent from my HUAWEI G510-0100 using Tapatalk 2
     
  15. West Cliff Miff

    West Cliff Miff Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Some very good advice above Glenn and I'd echo a few key principles:-

    Get some paid work under your belt asap and build up a reputation - for quality, flexibility, availability and so on. Many pro's are a bit picky and 'up themselves', and if you aren't, you'll quickly get work through word of mouth and referrals. It sounds as if you've already got the 'pull' in terms of interest.

    Whilst being mindful of establishing a customer base and not pricing yourself out of the market, once you've established a workable level of pricing, don't compromise - it's a stange thing, but people take it more seriously and value it more when they've paid a 'proper' price for something. The very worst customers are people who pay little/nothing - they seem to end up p*ssing you around and expect blood, sweat and tears for the few quid they give you. There are no exceptions to this in my experience - the very worst customers are ALWAYS those who've crippled you on price as well!

    By definition, if you are being paid a decent price, you have become 'professional' and people will expect professional standards, not just from the work (few concerns on that front!) but from how you engage with them, how you present proofs for them to select from, number of examples from which to choose, format and quality of finish of final product etc etc. This is fundamentally different from people just admiring your pictures and takes a bit of getting used to.

    Whilst there are standards that are the 'norm' for the industry, there are always variations and I'd say that is vital to pin down in great detail exactly what they are looking for, why, when, in what format(s) etc etc. That way you're unlikely to avoid any nasty surprises or disappointments. I'm sure you're used to doing that when designing a web-site - getting really clear up-front what the expectations are (makes it much easier to give them exactly what they want/need) and the same principles will apply.

    Personally, I'd be looking to establish an hourly rate that is viable for customers and for you too, possibly pitched just slightly (not much) below the local 'norm', just until you get established (as other folk have said) but be careful with this - it must be at a level that works for you too. Don't necessarily quote your hourly rate to customers/prospects - usually better to quote a price for the assignment (based on your hourly rate).

    Ensure that you apply this rate for all aspects of your assigment - shooting, processing, proofing and final product - don't be tempted to give bits of this for free as people will start to take it for granted and expect you to spend hours (for nowt) and keep tweaking something until they're 'satisfied'.

    On this point, you can afford to be a bit bossy and take the lead (in the nicest possible way) once you're engaged with a client - they expect you to advise them and it's OK, once you've listened to what it is they want and why, to tell them what can and can't be done for the budget and in the timescales - you don't need to absorb any pressure being put on you to deliver more than is possible for the dosh they are prepared to put into it.

    There's loads more, but it's probably best we do this over a beer sometime. I'll also see if I can get some specifics on pricing structures.
     
  16. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Cheers Miff and others. To be very honest I have no desire to be a professional photographer. I like it too much as a hobbey and I certainly won't be advertising myself as such. Far too many other things in life for me to start another. The problem I have is as a web designer people think the pictures are part of the price or that I will do them cheap for them in reality I wish people would go to a professional photog first and then bring me the images to go on their site. In reality I've had to get tough with.people more so in a bid to put them off and get them to pay a pro. I make any spare cash I need from web design and I'm happy for it to stay that way. But if people wante to take pics for them then they can pay the going rate. I've no desire to steel work from local snap pets if anything I'd like to send work to them.

    Sent from my HUAWEI G510-0100 using Tapatalk 2
     
  17. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Miff we deffo need to have a pint one evening soon

    Sent from my HUAWEI G510-0100 using Tapatalk 2
     
  18. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Got my first customer under the new price scheme. Seems they think its worth it.

    Sent from my HUAWEI G510-0100 using Tapatalk 2
     
  19. stickman

    stickman There's a difference between fishing and catching!

    Some very useful advice there Glenn - my comments regarding tax were also aimed at others reading this - I thought you were probably already self employed but don't know you well enough to assume so :wink:

    Miff raised a good point - which I'm sure you've already found out - that the more you do for customers, the more they expect from you! I'm sick of wasting my time on people who end up taking me for granted and then I just feel bad about it :angry:

    If you don't want to turn your hobby into a business then don't - it will just spoil the obvious enthusiasm you have at the moment. It's nearly 14 years since I turned my hobby into a business and I no longer get the enjoyment out of stickmaking that I did. The up-side is that I now do far for fishing because I need a "proper" hobby again :cheesy:
     
  20. West Cliff Miff

    West Cliff Miff Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Back up at the end of this week Glenn, and I hear beer and kayaks calling.
     

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