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Am I doing something wrong - boat fishing with shads

Discussion in 'Sea Fishing Forum - Shore, Boat & Kayak Fishing' started by CAB78, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. CAB78

    CAB78 Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    I have just started fishing again after 9-10 years off. Previously I fished from the shore and did a lot of freshwater angling. I have always wanted to try a bit of boat fishing so got myself a boat rod and some shads after doing a bit of reading up.

    I have been out twice now this season, but seem to be loosing a hell of a lot of gear. Don’t get me wrong, I know I will loose gear over the wrecks and hard ground, but I seem to be loosing a lot more than others on the boat and wondered if I was doing something wrong?

    I’ve been hitting bottom with the lead and winding up about 10 turns and dropping back down etc, also jigged. I’ve been watching what the others do and seem to be doing the same – am I just unlucky or is there more to it?

    I have read that some people tie / twist the leads onto the swivel using the plastic wire ties that you get around electrical cables, to act as a rotten bottom. Do many people do this?

    My set up is:

    Daiwa Kenzaki braid – 20/30lb class
    Trusty old Abu 7500C
    Berkley Whiplash crystal braid 30lb
    Berkley Big Game clear flurocarbon snood 30lb
    8/10 oz cannon ball leads and pear shaped leads
    2/0 snap link swivels

    Braid tied to 2/0 snap link with lead attached. 4/5ft fluorocarbon snood with shad on a snap link clipped to main lead snap link. All knots are grinners.

    I saw a previous thread on the forum lately which also mentioned the shape of the lead and if some are more prone to snagging than others.

    I seem to loose a lot of braid when snagged also; seems to break quite easily, especially when wound around the wooden pegs used on deck (which are smooth). Do people opt to use 50lb braid instead?

    I apologise in advance if the above seems trivial, but any help or advice is appreciated as its costing me an arm and leg at the moment! :surprise:
  2. andym

    andym Rockling

    I'm no expert at this but a heavier mainline than your trace should help
  3. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Not sure, but may be the flurocarbon, I understand knot strength is not as good and also its not as good with abrasion. Give Amnesia 40lb a go. Also 50lb braid could help
  4. BeeceUK

    BeeceUK Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Re: Re: Am I doing something wrong - boat fishing with shads

    Lb for lb fluoro is more resistant to abrasion than mono.

    Sent from my Blade III using Tapatalk 2
  5. BigPauly

    BigPauly Tina Turner _ Simply The Best

    Now them matey.

    Your set up sounds like there's not much wrong with it.

    I personally like to have a 50lb mono leader about the same length as my rod before the rig. This helps a bit to counter any abrasion if your line rubs on any bits of the wreck at the rig end. Braid is not very forgiving when it comes to abrasion resistance.

    It may be that you are snagging more often than others because the gear ratio on your reel is slower than other peoples on the boat. Try speeding up your retrieve slightly at the beginning and this might just get your end gear away from the snags on the initial retrieve.

    40 or 50lb would help. Try the Specra Braid on Ebay - cheap as chips and decent enough quality. £7 ish will get you 300yards with free delivery from China.

    Choice of lead shape; I haven't really found a lot of difference between pair shapes and cannon balls but try a slightly heavier lead to get slightly more vertical lift when the tide is running to reduce the angle and lessen the kiting effect on a long drift.

    The difference to catching and not catching could be something so small that it is hard to diagnose.

    Compare your rigs to others on the boat and try to copy exactly what the successful anglers are doing.

    The other thing is that shads have got off to a slow start this year due to the water conditions. Might be worth trying bait until the shads get back in the zone when the conditions are more ideal.

    Good luck!

  6. foo

    foo You've gotta be in it to win it.

    You don't appear to be doing anything wrong but maybe you could try varying or adapting your retrieve a little. Instead of 10 turns try 20 or even 30 before dropping back into the wreck. It is just possible the slightly slower retrieval ratio of the Abu is not letting the shad clear the wreck by much before dropping your lead back into it. It has been a desperate year in the main on shads so don't lose heart all together, it will kick off big style next Tuesday the day I go back to work :cry:
  7. Harlo from Darlo

    Harlo from Darlo Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    I'd defiantly up your main line to 50 as whiplash is really fine in its diameter and also there's a hell of a lot of fish that actually feed above the wreck so don't think 10 turns and drop back down again as I seem to favour anywhere between 14 and 20 turns so you spend most of the time away from any danger,

    Your set up is spot on but my best advice would be booking a decent boat and watch/ask the skipper all your questions and he will be only to happy to help you.....you'll learn a lot more in a day with a good skipper than any book you can get... I promise mate as I did.

    Good luck in the future
  8. bigcod

    bigcod Rockling

    Firstly braid and wood to break out in my book never it will slip then burn and will snap at the top every time unless you very quickly get 7or 8 turns round the wood you are better with some leather covering the wood so it doesnt slip save you money on long run.
    Shads you often wont go wrong jigging but and its a big but make sure your lead hits the bottom each time before you lift your rod to jig your shad let line go if you have to i have seen this method outfish winding many times cod are still stuck to the bottom at this time of the year once we into august september they come more of the bottom so winding is usually better anything upto 15 turns but normally 10 is fine.
    50lb. Berkeley braid and 40lb amnesia perfect combination.
  9. stickman

    stickman There's a difference between fishing and catching!

    I'm happier with 50lbs braid and a 50lbs mono leader tied directly to it - so it winds through the rings - about the length of the rod.
    I make break-out priests, 1 inch thick wooden sticks covered in plastic shrink tube (like you get for rod butts) with some lead weight at one end. Use it as a priest to kill your fish before you unhook them - they don't flap much, making unhooking easier - and it's kinder on the fish than letting it gasp it's life away.

    The plastic shrink tube grips the braid when you get half a dozen turns round it so it doesn't spin on the stick. If it spins it gets friction-burn and can snap instantly at the stick :surprise:

    Before you go for a break though, try "bouncing" the lead out of the wreck. Give half a dozen quite strong jerks (as if you were striking at a bite) in quick succession and quite often the lead will come free, sometimes - as Paul mentioned elsewhere - with a fish on the hook :cheesy:

    I use a 6 inch 35lb rotten bottom between the link and the lead so if you break out it's usually only the lead that goes. If you get truly hooked on the wreck the line usually parts at the swivel knot or the join between braid and mono. That way you get all your braid back!
  10. pro angler

    pro angler Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    I use 100lb braid purely because of the fact all the Hokkais I buy are generally made up of 80lb mono.

    I very rarely lose the expensive braid. Just the end gear.
  11. jethro

    jethro New Member

    I fish with 60lb braid and use a 35lb lead for the shad. I will however use a weak link in future for the lead.
    I only usually lose the bottom end and all the braid is usually retrieved safely. :happy:
  12. stickman

    stickman There's a difference between fishing and catching!

    Blimey - 35lb lead - you don't want to lose many of those Jethro :surprise:
    (sorry mate :wink:).
  13. Biker Jake

    Biker Jake Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    50lb braid mainline and 50lb mono trace. When you get fast jig the rod up and down as hard as you can you usually get your gear back.

    THE DOLPHIN Rockling

    This is how I rig my shads and it works very well for me.


    Main line is 80lb Spectra braid. Line to the shad is mono 80lb. Week link to lead is 50lb. Another thing I tend to do is let the line down steady thumbing the reel and as soon as I feel the lead touch the wreck I thumb the reel to stop it and lift the rod tip up the shad will still be falling to the bottom as you do this then engage winding mechanisam ready to start however many turns you want to wind up. You are always going to loose gear thats part of wreck / ground fishing :canadian:. Hope that is of some help :happy:
  15. jethro

    jethro New Member

    Blimey - 35lb lead - you don't want to lose many of those Jethro
    (sorry mate ).

    Bloody hell Keith I see what you mean!! :tease: :tease: ( Thats the amount of lead Ive been putting on each wreck lately)
    I meant to say snood or leader...

  16. stickman

    stickman There's a difference between fishing and catching!

    I knew you meant leader - just couldn't resist the dig though :wink:
  17. seaurchinmick

    seaurchinmick New Member

    All good advice there but I choose to keep it simpe less clips and swivels etc mean less tangles on a busy boat I have one angler who comes on my boat regular and he uses 70lb straight to his snap link 60lb snood to his lure 30-60lb test curve rod which enables him to give it loads of stick when snagged and the truth is he looses less tackle than any other angler I have fished with his just lucky? I don't think so
  18. BigPauly

    BigPauly Tina Turner _ Simply The Best

    What is the most likely culprit to get snagged, the lead weight or the actual hook end?

    In my experience most foul ups are on lost trawler nets and rope which is covering the wreck.

    In that instance I'd put my money on the hook end snagging first.

  19. CAB78

    CAB78 Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Sorry for the late reply, been away with work this week. Thanks everyone for the great advice and tips really appreciate it. Going to try quite a bit of the advice and see how it goes. Think I will up the braid to 50lb so there's a weak link with the 30lb snood and also add a rotten bottom.
    Think I will look into one of the wooden priests - Stickman do you make them with a leather wrap also as Paul suggests?

    I hadn't realised about the ratio of the 7500 either, may need to wind quicker and work the shad harder.

    Off out on Sunday so will see how things go. Forecast not looking good but a day of bait fishing may be in order.

    Thanks again everyone!
  20. Mick Dunn

    Mick Dunn Blenny

    Some good advice what guys have given. I use 60 lb braid straight through, I then tie 6 feet of 40 lb mono on. I have a lead on a snap link and a snood also on a snap link. Snood is usually 30lb with shad on. Length of snood 4 feet. I try to keep it simple and use minimum 12 oz leads ball if i have them. Its a bit of an art when you hit the bottom i give it about 20 turns. Its all about keeping it off the bottom as much as you dare..................some days i lose one rig.others i might lose 10 but thats fishing for you.


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