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After the big fish fight, where do we go

Discussion in 'Sea Fishing Forum - Shore, Boat & Kayak Fishing' started by neil bugdol, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. neil bugdol

    neil bugdol Blenny

    The big fish fight looks to be a success, Hugh Fearnley Wittingstall has achieved what he set out to do, but what happens next.
    The CFP is about to be reformed, will Brussels discard the discards.
    No one knows for sure how the reformed CFP will be structured, many different ideas are being floated about, which one appeals you.
    I like the credit scheme, but even in that, there is room for abuse.
     
  2. Sambo

    Sambo To the MAX!

    Just reading an article on the Guardian website asking the same question Neil.

    I wouldn't know where to start, minimising discard would be a good start but whatever they go for no doubt if there is a way to abuse the system some will find it.
     
  3. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    This is my concern and one Ive raised a couple of times in the other topics. Everyone is screaming about discards and the madness of the quota system appears so very obvious. But do you really think that when the quota system was introduced it was ever envisaged it would create such a major problem ?? I don't think that the scientists and politicians ever dreamt this would happen, and who is to say that in 10 years time we wont have another problem and everyone could be saying "How on earth did them idiot scientists not see this one coming"

    The only system that can work is one where fish are put at the top of the pile. Any system where the likes of the NFFO have a major say in the future of a fishery is destined to fail because they are driven by nothing other than pure greed and they will try every trick in the book to make things work for them and not the fish.

    Without wanting to sound too much like a left wing Marxist, the problem is capitalism. Fish must come first, and the catching of fish must be handed back to those who employ traditional and selective fishing methods. The Under 10 metre fleet should get more share of the rights to fish. Real local fishing communities must be redeveloped, discards, pair trawling and black fish has to stop and the days of single greedy men monopolising an industry from catching, selling and through to processing has to cease.

    If the real issue of greed and monetising fish isnt addressed then any system will fail.
     
  4. neil bugdol

    neil bugdol Blenny

    Have you read the proposals for the Fishing Credits Scheme Glenn, I know you have views on the proposers, but I think they have the fish at the top of their pile. But it`s still open for abuse, that too is my main concern.
    http://www.clientearth.org/reports/clientearth-mcs-fcs-proposal-short-summary.pdf
    The only thing that is going to stop capitalism is electronic surveillance, where it counts at the top end of the industry. To me it doesn`t make any sense for a skipper/owner to cut his own throat and I believe the under 10s wouldn`t need watching.
     
  5. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    I suppose it depends on how far they are willing to go Neil to enforce any new system and to put emphasis on the fish and not the fisherman. Letting the NFFO be involved is like letting Mcdonalds run the UK Obesity policy.
     
  6. ijakk

    ijakk Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

  7. quint

    quint Watch out Emperor Zorg's about

    I haven't really studied all the arguments and problems concerning our fisheries, it would take a huge amount of effort to try and get a balanced handle on all the issues, but as I troll through the various posts, now and in the past, I could hear myself uttering these same words Glenn, free market economics is a careless box of tricks, and it's main weakness is clear even to the uneducated - that without trickery or eroding value, without extortion, manipulation, deceit or outright theft, profit will simply not grow - look at the the MP's expenses scandal, only in the news this week it was highlighted that NHS Consultants were "abusing" the overtime system, some getting paid £100,000 per year extra - I am under no illusion that this will happen in the fishing industry as with any other industry, damn pure greed and power, and they will use every trick in the book, every slippery deceit to retain power and in doing so keep the small man down.
     
  8. neil bugdol

    neil bugdol Blenny

    I`ve just been looking through the Q and A on Hugh`s Fish Challenge and found what I think is his best statement yet,
    "HUGH'S COMMENT: Locally caught fish, especially from the “under tens” – family owned fishing boats less than 10 metres long – generally represents the most sustainable fish choice of all. In many ports you can still buy fish direct off the boats – which is always an adventure and a treat."
    Now that is something he should publicly endorse.
     
  9. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    Thats how its done in Italy:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. neil bugdol

    neil bugdol Blenny

    Used to be done like that here Glenn. I can remember as a kid, no trip to the seaside, as we used to call it, was complete without fresh fish being bought off a boat in the harbour at Brid.
     
  11. Baramundi Bob

    Baramundi Bob Super Leeds United !!!

    The fish qouy at Whitby was always open to the public. Then, allegedly on the grounds of health and safety, it was closed to the public. The cynic in me still believes that it served a purpose to have people not allowed on the quoy, especially at midnight when they landed all their black fish onto waggons.

    Was once told a story of a guy who tried to take photos of the quoy on a night. His camera went in the harbour and he was given a beating by one of the locals.
     
  12. cleeclive

    cleeclive Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    Capitalism is what makes the word go around guys and puts the money in our pension funds.

    The only reason anyone invests in a fishing boat is to murder fish and create wealth, no one runs a business for the fun of it.

    So back to fishy things and the reform of the CFP. I Guess that Hugh is not the best friend of the fisheries science and management community at the moment, because they have spent the last 20 years focusing on quotas and adding crisis mangement strategies to the 'Blue Book'. I fear that this will not stimulate change because fisheries scientists like time series data, and change usually takes at least 10 years from the first experiment, and all the statistical analysis to come up with an alternative.

    What we might see is a promise to look at change!!


    However stock assessment scientists do like 'days at Sea ' regulations, because they know that if a boat is in the harbour it is not murdering fish. This could be an alternative but I guess it will be days at sea with quota.

    Regarding the concept of an under 10m industry, this would fly in the face of government policy. The fishing industry currently costs around 10% of its nett value to research and manage, incredibly expensive. The govenment would like to see 50 large vessels catching everything and the rest irradicated ,hence minimal admin costs.

    That is my view for what it is worth

    Cheers

    Clive
     
  13. neil bugdol

    neil bugdol Blenny

    "Regarding the concept of an under 10m industry, this would fly in the face of government policy. The fishing industry currently costs around 10% of its nett value to research and manage, incredibly expensive. The govenment would like to see 50 large vessels catching everything and the rest irradicated ,hence minimal admin costs."

    I can appreciate what your saying Clive. Just in the same way government policy has allowed supermarkets to drive out the corner shop and local store, 1000 supermarkets instead of 100,000 corners shops = minimal admin with the tax`s. No doubt somewhere there`ll be data that links both scenarios, or is it under our nose`s, is it not the big chains that force suppliers and providers into finding ways to cut the cost of their products and it is the same chains that print the lies on their packaging.
     
  14. cleeclive

    cleeclive Whitby Fishing Forum _ Simply The Best

    You may be right there but it is hapening in agriculture too. There have been several programs recently looking at animal and milk production units. We have a group of farmers in Lincolnshire who have got together and want to introduce a milk production unit with 8000 cattle that never see the light of day, as they do it in the USA, and then there are the Dutch style super greenhouses, where one can supply 10% of the UK salad needs.
    Regrettably if we do not go along with this TESCO will buy it from Holland or Germany where it has been allowed.
    I think that we all know who is in the driving seat, but we all shop there to collect our club points which gives us a so called free Christmas dinner.
    I guess we can kick and scream as much as we like but we can't turn the clock back, we just have let Tesco and BP rule the world.
     
  15. neil bugdol

    neil bugdol Blenny

    Unity, it`s a scary word to some, but the fact is everybody knows what it means, but very few are prepared to do it.
    The modern way of life has twisted people into a stronger belief, F... you Jack, I`m alright. We are a totally divided nation, this is exactly what Parliament wants and big business loves it.
     

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