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Author Topic: Protecting native brown trout - Environment agency news  (Read 218 times)
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Baramundi Bob
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« on: April 25, 2008, 11:17:05 PM »

Protecting native brown trout is at the heart of a new Environment Agency approach that will benefit both anglers and the native trout population in rivers and lakes throughout England and Wales.

Angling is one of the most popular outdoor pursuits, bringing many social and economic benefits. Every year, fishery owners and clubs introduce almost 700,000 fertile farmed trout into rivers and lakes to supplement stocks for anglers.

Under the new policy, infertile triploid brown trout will be used to stock these waters in a move to protect wild trout (including sea trout) stocks. The Environment Agency will stop giving consent to stock fertile farmed brown trout into rivers and most lakes in England and Wales from 2015. Targets have been set to encourage fishery managers to progressively switch to the use of infertile triploid fish to supplement trout stocks in these waters.

"Our research has shown that inter-breeding between farmed and wild brown trout lowers the ability of the offspring to survive in the wild, and could have serious implications for the future of the wild brown trout. This decision has been made following work with leading authorities on trout fisheries management and research, and an extensive consultation process," Dafydd Evans, Head of Fisheries for the Environment Agency, said.

"This policy will make a real difference to the future of our wild brown trout. We have to make sure that any fish stocking does not damage the local trout population The ability to produce infertile trout is tried and tested and will provide fisheries with the stock they need without affecting the ability of wild trout and sea trout to thrive.

"We want to work with fishery owners and angling clubs as well as the fish farm industry to prepare for stocking triploid brown trout over the next seven years. We understand this is a big change for many, but we want to see the number of fertile farm-strain fish stocked into the wild gradually reduced to zero by 2015," continued Dafydd Evans.

Around 140,000 triploid brown trout are already being stocked into rivers and lakes every year. These fish have been widely used by fishery owners over the last 10 years.

Stocking of the offspring of trout locally sourced from the wild will be allowed to continue as this does not impact on the native gene pool.

"This change to our stocking policy, along with our joint efforts with partners to clean up our rivers and lakes, improve and create new habitats for fish and improve river flow, will mean a really healthy future for the angling industry," Dafydd Evans said.
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northbayotter
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2008, 11:34:20 AM »

the reality is though that as usual, we have a NATIONALISED organization applying a NATIONALIZED POLICY which has no capacity to take account of local issues and factors affecting trout populations or in fact the true interactions of all stocked brown trout with so called 'naturally ocurring /breeding indiginous brown trout stocks" in all situations.

to qualify this veiw at risk of stating the obvious  i wish to outline the following questions
which the E.A. is choosing to ignore in making the sweeping change in stocking policy which it has announced.

(1) -what is a 'wild' indiginous brown trout?

(my answer)
                -in an ideal world in my veiw there should and can only be one correct and true answer to that question and that is  a creature that has been naturally generated in the water it is living with no stock-fish genetics whatsoever in its lineage.
(now that is a trout worth protecting !!!)

however, in the real world a true wild trout is a rare thing indeed these days and whilst i whole heartedly agree that any such remnants of true wild trout (for that is what they are) -should be identified and protected in the way proposed by the agency on a case-by-case basis. pray pray

the E.A.'s answer to what is a wild trout? : -

- a trout that has been resident in a river for five years or more..... !! educated educated laugh laugh

but the simple reality is that as almost all trout rivers the length and breadth of the country have receved stockings of brown trout on a regular basis for well over a 100 YEARS OR MORE!
as such the 'train' that this idea should have been on has long since left the station.
the sudden 'new' idea is that the best breeding/surviving brown trout are the ones that have been bred there.........  well i wonder?

-ever heard of a darwinian theory / process known as natural selection?
-quite simply if a brown trout having been farm-reared is unable to adapt and properly reproduce in the wild river environment it now finds itself then its blood line will FAIL,
-just as its wild bred counterparts bloodline would also fail in much the same way


(2) why would the agency consider such a move and on what basis of science?

i wonder if the agency has accounted for the basic facts that :-
when a farmed brown trout (fertile) is stocked into a river it is typically around the age of just two years old (i.e. a very young and inexperienced animal) and typically weighs between 12oz and 1lb 8oz as body weight is the usual 'trigger' for the development of sexual maturity (coming into breeding condition) it will almost certainly attempt to spawn before the end of the year in which it is stocked, having considered the 'inexperience thing' -is it really rocket science to understand why the reported poor spawning performance of stock fish?

alternatively in the wild trout world the fish take many years to reach such size having not been all but force fed to attain maximumum size in the shortest possible time,
-the wild fish takes many years to grow and has many more years to hone its spawning skills
doubtless failing or acheving poor or limited succes along the way.
 it is a well established proven fact that in many other better studied/understood animal and bird (even wild ones) species around the world early attempts at breeding often fail to produce viable young primarily by reason of the 'adults' in-experience

(3) issues such as exccesive poaching should also be taken into account and from personal experience the agency is less than effective at countering this single issue with its massive potential to pemanently damage naturally self generating stocks,
 even fair angling has potential to do significant damage to self generating stocks and without the option of fishery owners to re-introduce replacement potential breeding capable fish then little can be done to mitigate that damage.

(4)and what of the case where a river has suffered devastating  total anihalation of all fish as a result of pollution ?
-as our river did some years ago with a massive influx of raw sewage which was caused by flash floods inundating the sytem and causing overspill into the river death death,
without restocking our brown trout fishing and club were all but finished  wounded. (mecifully the sea trout were still away at sea when that occured yes cheesy)

we now have 'wild' fish appearing again (some 7 years on happy) all are small and none are large enough to be considered survivors of that incident sad , so all are considered to be progeny from the farmed fish that we restocked with (paid for by the polluter ) so it is apparrent that our stock are all ultimately of farmed origin

(5)one definite potential downside that i can see to stocking triploids is that as is well publicised by the fish farmers that triploid (triple chromosome female) brown trout do not exibit the appetite suppression behavioural charcteristics exibited by their diploid couterparts at spawning time
(i can hear you ask what does that matter?) -well quite simply mother nature in her wisdom
turns down/reduces the feeding response to protect the spawn from the trout themselves.
therefore brown trout (triploids) that are still fully 'on feed' are simply going to become a new threat to the 'wild'/spawning trout as they will simply consume the spawn


(6)-as for the seatrout issue ,  our river retains its seatrout run both in numbers and size
(and as we speak, sea-trout smolts are present in very large numbers)
and all of this despite our stocking of farmed brown trout for a great many years which in no way seems to detrimentally affect the sea-trout runs in our experience

(7) on a final note my suspisions are that this move has significantly more to do with the lobbying
of those with the hidden agenda of furthering the profitability of future farmed brown trout production
as: -
       (a) we will have to buy more brown trout on a regular basis
       (b)brown trout as triploids grow much faster, 
         (i.e. better conversion of food to body weight ratio than diploids) -so much cheaper to produce
           and are more disease resistant owing to a greatly reduced loss of condition during the
          winter months (spawning time)

   and all of this in the name of conservation..... of brown trout......

 ................................................or is it fish farmers profits ????
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 11:57:41 AM by northbayotter » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2008, 04:24:56 PM »

NBO, I agree that the way in which the EA goes about the delivery of its policies in a blanket bombing do or die fashion pi*ses us all off, but I reckon that in the majority of rivers and streams that this is a good policy. True, there may be very few, possibly no truly indigenous wild trout left, but why should that be a reason for saying that there is no point in letting a population develop into a genetic type that is specific to that river and therefore create a new strain of specialists? The only way that this can be done is to stop stocking with fertile fish. Better still, stop stocking all together and let the natural population build itself. If people want to increase the carrying capacity of the rivers then maybe some more pressure on those who are still treating them like sewers could be the answer. Tackle the problem at its root.

Unlike ourselves who have the chance to get lathered in old spice and get a slapper so smashed that she doesn't notice that after 2 mins of grunting you have used the curtains as a kleenex and wandered into the night to contemplate future conquest improvements. Fish do not gain experience as they get older, their actions being instinctive. What is important is that the conditions are optimum. Fish, especially predatory and terratorial ones like trout, aim to survive. They eat, grow and get busy with the fizzy, in some cases getting a wild bug up their swim bladder and shooting out to sea to become a silver bar. By introducing near fecund fish into a system, the balance is thrown. There are many fewer sea trout now than there has been in the past. Why is this? Stocking? Pollution? Pressure from sea fishing? Who knows, but until the balance is restored and as near a natural system as possible is maintained then we will not be able to take stocking as being a contributory factor towards their decline out of the equation.

You have also got to wonder why the rivers were stocked in the first place.
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 02:38:15 PM »

NBO, I agree that the way in which the EA goes about the delivery of its policies in a blanket bombing do or die fashion pi*ses us all off, but I reckon that in the majority of rivers and streams that this is a good policy. True, there may be very few, possibly no truly indigenous wild trout left, but why should that be a reason for saying that there is no point in letting a population develop into a genetic type that is specific to that river and therefore create a new strain of specialists? The only way that this can be done is to stop stocking with fertile fish. Better still, stop stocking all together and let the natural population build itself.

 Fish do not gain experience as they get older, their actions being instinctive

You have also got to wonder why the rivers were stocked in the first place.

while i agree with the final point you made it is a fact that it has now passed into history as a common place practice therefore it is now far too late to undo the 'damage' that has been done.

 by far the most common "alien" trout strain /genes now found almost throughout britain in almost all brown trout rivers (and farmed brown trout strains) is by far the strain of trout which is of loch leven origin which has also been introduced elsewhere in the world
notably kashmir* (india) argentina* & falklands* and of course new zealand*
(*and in these locations salmonids did not previously exist)

the fact is that things are unfortunately not as simple as the rest of the views you hold and most certainly of all not in all cases.

as factors such as: -
 unnatural chemicals such as  agricutural pesticides and fertilizers,
sewage discharges  (both treated and untreated) and even this,
whether untreated or treated (and perfectly permitted/legal)  also contains a whole cocktail of unnatural chemicals
(mainly of the household cleaning agent/detergent/ washing powder variety)
run of from roads*, land drainage* (*silting of spawning gravels) can all have a dramatic impact upon the spawning success of fish
within a river system

« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 12:11:58 PM by northbayotter » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 05:03:48 PM »

The E.A used the genetic argument to stop stocking the Tees with Salmon Parr 20 years ago. They did/do however, continue to stock the Tyne, and now the Esk.  Given the E.A's philosphy regarding the Tees, therefore, when i catch a Tees Salmon i'm catching a wild fish compared to a Tyne and Esk fish. Or is this just a load of bollocks?  If not, is it possible the E.A are using the Tees as an experiment regarding the genetic purity of fish?



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northbayotter
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 07:10:47 PM »

The E.A used the genetic argument to stop stocking the Tees with Salmon Parr 20 years ago. They did/do however, continue to stock the Tyne, and now the Esk.  Given the E.A's philosphy regarding the Tees, therefore, when i catch a Tees Salmon i'm catching a wild fish compared to a Tyne and Esk fish. Or is this just a load of bollocks?  If not, is it possible the E.A are using the Tees as an experiment regarding the genetic purity of fish?




valid points m8  yes
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2008, 02:31:05 PM »

The E.A used the genetic argument to stop stocking the Tees with Salmon Parr 20 years ago. They did/do however, continue to stock the Tyne, and now the Esk.  Given the E.A's philosphy regarding the Tees, therefore, when i catch a Tees Salmon i'm catching a wild fish compared to a Tyne and Esk fish. Or is this just a load of bollocks?  If not, is it possible the E.A are using the Tees as an experiment regarding the genetic purity of fish?

Maybe the new 'survey' will find that out Dave, though I doubt you can learn much from a tag that has been shat out of a seal.

As Northbayotter pointed out- no two rivers are the same and blanket regulation will never meet the needs of every river.
I have both negative and positive thoughts on the stocking of rivers through things I have seen in the past.
For instance, the stockies on the Esk seem to switch on to 2-4 inch fish pretty quickly which doesn't seem to have affected the wild brown stocks in such areas but grayling (which were often of that size in such areas) seem to have all but vanished.
On the other side of the coin though, come Summertime and the visiting wormers are taking one or two for the pot (which they are perfectly entitled to) I'd rather it was stocked fish rather than something that has had to struggle all its life to get to 9 inches.

I see that regulation has influenced certain stillwater stocking policies as well with the likes of Esthwaite Water being deemed a 'native water' and moving to a brown trout only stocking policy from 2009.
A can of worms for sure.
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2008, 03:03:26 PM »

I'm suspicious of the "survey Ian. To be honest i think they are just time wasting.

I read a report compiled by the EA on the greatest influence regrding the recovery of the Tyne. The report concluded that the biggest influence for the recovery wasn't cleaner water or either stocking with Parr, but it was actually the recruitment of Salmon from other rivers systems. This seems to suggest that Atlantic Salmon do not always return to the river of their birth, and therfore, if they meet an unsurmountable obstacle i'e the Barrage or even Ruswarp weir for that matter, then they will turn back and enter another river. system. If this is true, where do we start with regards to genetics then? It certainly makes hypocrites of the EA with their excuse to stop stocking the Tees with Parr.

My personal feeling why they stopped stocking the Tees (even though it may not needed stocking in the first place) is simply because the Barrage stops a lot returning fish migrating up river. So they might as well save money and use their saved resources to stock the Tyne and Esk. Having said that, the EA have a similar policy on the River Wear. Angling clubs on that river have wanted it stocked for years and the EA refuse to do so. It is generally classed as the best Sea Trout river our country has, but it isnt a really good Salmon river. This wont improve unless there is an positive impact due to the N.E drift nets which have now been removed. Only time will tell.
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2008, 03:18:37 PM »

From the BBC today:

"Fish stocks in the Tees Barrage are to be electronically tagged as part of a £500,000 study into how they live.

By tracking their movements over the next three years scientists are hoping to learn more about fish migration and feeding habits.

The Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science (CEFAS) is carrying out the research project.

British Waterways (BW), which manages the barrage, wants to protect trout and salmon from foraging seals.

The barrage is operated as a "fish pass" by BW staff who operate locks and the barrage gates to allow migrating fish to pass upstream.

Laurence Morgan, general manager for BW, said: "There are a great many anecdotal views about the impact of the Tees Barrage on fishing, with some anglers saying it has improved while others argue it has declined.

"CEFAS are the leading experts in their field and we are confident that this study will enable them to provide reliable, scientific and indisputable data which can inform the future management of the structure and river."

I think you are right with your 'timewasting' point.
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2008, 03:26:46 PM »

Thanks for that Ian.
But why a £500,000 study when that money could improve the passage of fish through the Barrage by simply building a new fish pass that works.
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2008, 03:31:38 PM »

Thanks for that Ian.
But why a £500,000 study when that money could improve the passage of fish through the Barrage by simply building a new fish pass that works.

From reading other forums with topics on fishery management it seems that these days those who pull the strings lean towards complicating what Mother Nature made so damned simple in the first place.
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2008, 03:37:17 PM »

Thats true. Theres also an old saying about keeping certain people in jobs as well.

Have you been doing any fishing Ian?
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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2008, 03:38:50 PM »

Thats true. Theres also an old saying about keeping certain people in jobs as well.

Have you been doing any fishing Ian?

Yes mate, but of the sea-dwelling silver variety.

PM on its way.
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