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Author Topic: WWF to take EU to court over cod stocks  (Read 677 times)
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Baramundi Bob
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« on: March 23, 2007, 12:47:59 PM »

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"The Council of the European Union is being taken to the European Court of Justice by WWF over its handling of cod fisheries in the region.

The conservation group alleges that by going against repeated scientific warnings on the sustainability of cod stocks, the Council has breached EU environmental law."

http://www.sacn.org.uk/Conservation-and-Political-News/WWF_Goes_to_Court_Over_Cod.html

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« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 02:10:22 PM by Baramundi Bob » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2007, 02:05:04 PM »

Could this be the driver to initiate bag limits on cod if they win their case in the EU court.

With the commission already investigating catches of cod by sea anglers, I can see a real crunch coming if WWF win their case.  The possible outcome could be a zero TAC (unlikely but possible), you can bet your last £ that sea angling would then come under enormous scrutiny with the commercial industry clammering for similar bans on RSA taking cod.

Indications from other EU member states is that sea angling takes between 1/3 to equal amounts of cod when compared to the quota allowed for their respective commercial fleets (Gerrmany, Netherlands & Belgium).  I don't think anyone has an idea of the UK RSA take of cod, but similar figures are quoted for UK bass (RSA caught).

A lot of anglers may be thinking 'well done WWF', unforunately the fall out for sea angling could be massive.  Such EU legislation would need to be fought in the European court, DEFRA or the UK government would not be in a position to fight for RSA without backing the commercial sector, and this is a fight I think they would be unwilling to take on due to the likely public outcry (save the cod, not sod the cod).

Who is going to take this fight to the EU if it happens, sea anglers in the NE apparently have no faith in the various governing bodies, or other representative groups, so are unlikely to offer support to fight such restrictions.

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Baramundi Bob
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2007, 02:27:46 PM »

I guess its a case of which one gets us first Nigel - The Recreational sea angling strategy or the WWF. Having read info on the RSA Strategy lately I notice the marine bill is expected to be in place by 2009 giving the government the legislation to be able to restrict us. I know having read your post the other night that the minister says cod is not on the list of fish to restrict with bag limits but given that the grounds for these limits is said to be conservational and bass are within safe levels I do wonder which fish he talks about ? I note you say in the countries you mention that anglers take 1 third to equal amounts of cod in comparison to commercial fishermen from that statistic one can arrive at several conclusions

    • Those countries have no commercial fleet
    • If they have a fleet Those countries commercial fishermen are no good at their job
    • Those countries have the best anglers in the world with exceptional catching ability
    • Cod quota for those countries is so low its easily matched by angling
    • They made it up
    [/list]

    Do you have the links to the research evidence for their claims Nigel ?

    I am afraid I'm not alone in my lack of faith of various angling bodies Nigel. One doesn't have to look far to find others.





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    Doc
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    « Reply #3 on: March 23, 2007, 04:00:28 PM »

    Hi Glenn,

    I also share your doubts wrt the transparency of the minister, he clearly speaks with a forked tongue.  However, like it or not, cod is firmly on the radar, although, I think that this will be EU led and not DEFRA, they will simply be the enforcers.

    With regard to which one gets us first, I don't think the RSA strategy is that important, licences and bag limits were always going to be management tools once DEFRA had looked at the way other countries managed their inshore fisheries.  A significant driver for this originated at EU level and as with commercial fishing and EU wide regulation, there was a perceived need to include and consolidate regulation of RSA across the European Union, especially with the influx of new eastern European member states (Poland etc.) 

    To my mind the RSA strategy is nothing more than a first notice of intent, it is the marine bill that is of principal concern and the potential legislation to over-manage an activity that is in dire need of fresh input, in terms of new ideas and means to enhance the sea angling opportunities. 

    The research is as yet unpublished, and related to me by word of mouth (I possibly shouldn't have referred to it).  The countries involved certainly have large fleets, the Dutch fleet is probably bigger than ours, although comprises a different fleet segment (mainly beam trawling).  Wrt your other points, I couldn't comment, although the Dutch are reknown as excellent fishermen.  Yes they do have a lower TAC than the UK, they concentrate more on plaice and sole, they also do not have as much cod around their coast as we do, so to a certain extent you are correct in your asssumptions.

    However, comparrison to member states TACs or quota's is not a like for like comparrison.  What concerns me is that if (hypothetically speaking) we in the UK have the lions share of the cod TAC, due to its distribution and our historical track record, we have more anglers than these other individual EU states, sea angling effort is going to be proportionately higher.  If we have more RSA effort, access to more cod for longer periods, then it stands to reason that our take will be on a similar scale to that of other countries who have less anglers and reduced availability of cod.

    There is in the North Sea a missing stock component of around 40,000 tonnes, if the TAC is 23,000 tonnes, thats a sizeable unaccounted component, my point is that if RSA is responsible for 20% of that missing component, which equates to approx. 1/3 of the North Sea TAC, then we have a very difficult argument on our hands.  Especially if WWF wins its case in the European courts.  Of course this is all hypothetical but based on educated estimations, I know the general feeling is that anglers don't impact fish stocks, I think that is probably true and unless proven otherwise it is a position we shopuld defend rigorously, however, if proven otherwise, we may have to accept some restriction on stock conservation grounds.  To continue to argue against would be folly and undermine any credibility we may have.

    PS. if you think that this post is fuel, please don't hesitate to delete it.

    Cheers

    Doc.
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    Baramundi Bob
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    « Reply #4 on: March 23, 2007, 04:23:46 PM »

    Hi Nigel,

    I read about the missing 40,000 tonnes of fish about a year ago, I think it was on the ICES website. Instantly it came straight into my mind where that fish had gone. I find it rather Ironic that the very people pointing the finger at anglers for that missing cod are the very people who stole it.

    Are these scientists employed by ICES and CEFAS really that blind ? they know illegal fishing has gone on on a massive scale off our coast for many years. From what I here they have never been able to stop it.

    Having played a part in bringing the whole trawler fleet from Whitby into the dock for illegal fishing they must be aware of the effect misreporting of catches has on their science ?

    I read a claim not so long ago that 80% of the Scottish fleet broke the law every time they put to sea.

    With knowledge of these happenings I find it astounding that they try to turn around to anglers and say you took the missing fish.

    I studied a science myself for several years Nigel and as you know you can make statistics say whatever you want, but a little digging will present you with the real truth.
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    « Reply #5 on: March 23, 2007, 05:31:03 PM »

    I work in the fish trade and have seen first hand how much back door fish gets landed.The company i used to work for and several other fish processing firms in the local area were all taking heaps of black fish.I know for a fact that 4 years ago,4 or 5 of the local bigger trawlers and pair trawlers were landing up to 200 boxes of cod every other night in the early hours of the morning,like i said,i witnessed it going on as i was helping fill the vans.Multiply this by the number of ports around our coast and it does not take a genius to work out where it has gone.I totally agree that RSA make an impact on the stocks,but we should not get carried away with the percentage which we take as personally i think it's very very minimal.Just to add fuel to the fire,one anonimous local skipper was about to lose his house car and everything else 4 years ago,now his house is payed for and he lives very comfortably.So please forgive me when i get  irate about the commercial sector trying to shift the blame,they should look a lot closer to home ;) ;) ;)
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    Baramundi Bob
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    « Reply #6 on: March 23, 2007, 07:18:06 PM »

    I bet your not the only 1 in here could tell a story like that Smokey. I've heard similar stories come from Whitby. 40,000 tonnes and the rest. Catches were so far misreported that the scientists hadn't a clue what was actually in the water in the first place - Probably more than they thought.

    http://www.qmw.ac.uk/~ugte133/courses/environs/cuttings/fish/FishScam.pdf

    « Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 07:29:51 PM by Baramundi Bob » Logged

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