What Would You Say To DEFRA About Licences And Bag Limits ? Please respond

[Baramundi Bob]

A bit of a hypothetical question but if you were to be offered the chance to meet with DEFRA  what would you say to them about sea fishing licences, Bag limits and bait digging bans ? What would your reply be to the fisheries minister Jonathan Shaw on the following questions.

1).   Are sea anglers happy with the way the Minister and DEFRA are looking after sea angling and fish stocks?

2).   Are they willing to put up with bag limits and pay a rod licence in the hope that DEFRA may in the future do something to enhance sea angling?

3).   If You had the opportunity what would you say to the minister and or DEFRA ?

4).   Do they think it is worth continuing talks with DEFRA about sea angling or should anglers walk away (in the short term or longer term)?

and finally,

5).   Should anglers begin to exert political pressure to bring about change. The fisheries minister Jonathan Shaw’s constituency is a marginal seat.  Should sea anglers target this seat to get him removed in response to his obvious commercial bias, and inability to look after sea angling.

 :) :)

[Lobbers]

i say they should bog off and leave us be, at the worst i would pay, would'nt be happy, but would pay for a rod licence, but the idea of bag limits really boils my piss, bag limits would wreck our match fishing totaly >:( >:( >:(

[Slim Jim]

If I thought paying a licence fee and having a bag limit would improve the North Sea cod stocks radically, them I would happily comply. However we all know that this would not make a S~~ts worth of difference. What rod and line anglers catchin a year is small potatoes to what commercial boats (trawlers etc) throw back dead as undersize or over quota fish. To say nothing of them throwing their first trawl back cleaned and iced because the next one is more valuable. Yes this is true , I heard it from the horses mouth.
  Commercial fishermen are sometimes called farmers of the sea. The trouble is that they take their harvest without sowing any seed or looking after their crop.
 I just think the licence is another attempt by this government to appease those who are ignorant of the real problems (townie general public), without the need to actually address what is going on.
 Sorry if this may offend some people, but if the cap fits, maybe you have to wear it .  :o :o >:(

[Baramundi Bob]

My Answers would be.

1. Of course we are not happy with how fish stocks are managed. It is clear neither the fish nor the angler are central to DEFRA's thoughts. For as many years as I care to remember ICES have called for a closure of the commercial cod fishery. Each year the minister has vetoed the eu summit proposals due to pressure from the British commercial fishermen. Also as slim Jim says above our fishermen are throwing back legal sized fish because the next haul provides larger more valuable fish (these are the words of local MP Robert Goodwill - "The fishermen are having to discard perfectly marketable fish because it’s small even though it’s within the legal limit in order to save their quota for bigger fish that they can sell at a better price"). There are so many ways in which DEFRA and the EU are mismanaging fish stocks that I could go on for ever.

2. If forced to pay a rod licence obviously I would. Personally I think its the most ludicrous thing I ever heard. The UK citizens have had the legal right to fish in the sea since the 8th century, how fitting is it that our current government renowned for stealth taxes and erosian of civil liberties wishes to introduce yet another tax at the expense of sea anglers. Its just an erosion of our ancient rights. The money will be taken up in meaningless research (eg the last piece of government research I read said dog walkers were a threat to marine biodiversity - GET A GRIP ??? )and paying wages for men in suites to keep a watchful eye over us all. The license will also impact on the businesses of hard working local people. Its already been proven in Portugal that a down turn in angling activity due to the expense of having to pay a license will hit the angling trade. Both shop owners and local charter skippers could be hit hard.

With regard to bag limits it would ruin the north east fishing clubs as we know them today. Many of these clubs and local festivals have been in existence for a large part of this century. You propose to damage them for what reason ? You surely don't think were that gullible to believe we impact on fish stocks ? You know where the real problems lie but refuse to sort them out.

3. Leave fishing alone. Its so much more than you understand it to be and you are proposing to damage something that means so much to so many people. Keep your hands off our sport. Also we have noticed you have delayed the announcement of the tope management plan to coincide with your RSA Strategy consultation. Do you think we are that gullible we wont think your trying to buy us with this token gesture ?

4. No. I have said it before and as a member of the angling representative bodies I have asked them to back out of any talks with DEFRA et al. The message should be loud and clear, We don't want your interference and the only time we will talk to you is to defend our position.

5. Do anything that is needed to show these people we mean business. The fisheries minister seems to be having a laugh at our expense. Hit the labour party where it counts - At the ballot box.

[BIG rod]

Slim Jim has got it spot on Wat more can u say!!!

[Slim Jim]

Cheers big rod.

[BIG rod]

good to c someone telling it as it is :)

[smokey]

In a nutshell,the incompetent little shi t can shove the proposals up his gary glitter.Using us as scapegoats for the blatant mis management of the commercial sector don't cut it with me.

[Baramundi Bob]

bump

[crabadabado]

Lets have it pro rata. If we have to pay £25 for a licence to pleasure fish, and eat what we catch. Let the Trawler skippers pay £250,000 to catch and destroy the fish that never reaches anyones table.

[bassman]

well said slim jim could not put it any better

[the slug]

You're spot on Slimjim, but don't u reckon that it would pay dividends to engage with DEFRA in as many talks as possible so that we are always represented and our voice heard? Its hard enough as it is to stop decisions being made regardless of what people think or say, but if we don't have a voice representing us at the table of every policy making thinktank then we're even more f***d than we are already.

[northbayotter]

Lets have it pro rata. If we have to pay £25 for a licence to pleasure fish, and eat what we catch. Let the Trawler skippers pay £250,000 to catch and destroy the fish that never reaches anyones table.

-thing is though crabadabado, -surely the greatest the greatest p***take of all is that the commercials have never had to pay for their own regulation and the licences which now exchange hands for huge sums between fishermen were originally handed out on demand upon payment of a nominal admin fee!

-and all of this while sea fisheries have been allowed to decline almost to the point of total collapse and all the while
you, me and the rest of the unwitting tax-paying public have funded the apathetic, in-effective successive failed government fisheries departments attempts at fisheries management.

and somehow now in the governments perverse thinking they believe  that it is justified to begin to charge and restrict  the user group that has not created the problem?

if the example shown in portugal following the introduction of a seafishing licence there is anything to go by
(60% fall in bait and tackle sales) then the writing is on the wall for u.k. tackle shops that depend upon sea fishing heavily as they will simply cease trading at such a loss of trade, somewhere in all of that my own and many other livlihoods depend on such issues and the obvious uncertainty these proposals create are of the very gravest concern
 
-so in short my answer to the government is: -

"theres not a chance in hell that i will be happy to pay for a sea fishing licence"!

and why the hell propose a bag limit?
- surely before there can be any need for that an angler has to have enough fish present so he is able to catch one before there can be any possible cause for worry about whether its ok to kill it!

[northbayotter]

My Answers would be.

1. Of course we are not happy with how fish stocks are managed. It is clear neither the fish nor the angler are central to DEFRA's thoughts. For as many years as I care to remember ICES have called for a closure of the commercial cod fishery. Each year the minister has vetoed the eu summit proposals due to pressure from the British commercial fishermen. Also as slim Jim says above our fishermen are throwing back legal sized fish because the next haul provides larger more valuable fish (these are the words of local MP Robert Goodwill - "The fishermen are having to discard perfectly marketable fish because it’s small even though it’s within the legal limit in order to save their quota for bigger fish that they can sell at a better price"). There are so many ways in which DEFRA and the EU are mismanaging fish stocks that I could go on for ever.

2. If forced to pay a rod licence obviously I would. Personally I think its the most ludicrous thing I ever heard. The UK citizens have had the legal right to fish in the sea since the 8th century, how fitting is it that our current government renowned for stealth taxes and erosian of civil liberties wishes to introduce yet another tax at the expense of sea anglers. Its just an erosion of our ancient rights. The money will be taken up in meaningless research (eg the last piece of government research I read said dog walkers were a threat to marine biodiversity - GET A GRIP ??? )and paying wages for men in suites to keep a watchful eye over us all. The license will also impact on the businesses of hard working local people. Its already been proven in Portugal that a down turn in angling activity due to the expense of having to pay a license will hit the angling trade. Both shop owners and local charter skippers could be hit hard.

With regard to bag limits it would ruin the north east fishing clubs as we know them today. Many of these clubs and local festivals have been in existence for a large part of this century. You propose to damage them for what reason ? You surely don't think were that gullible to believe we impact on fish stocks ? You know where the real problems lie but refuse to sort them out.

3. Leave fishing alone. Its so much more than you understand it to be and you are proposing to damage something that means so much to so many people. Keep your hands off our sport. Also we have noticed you have delayed the announcement of the tope management plan to coincide with your RSA Strategy consultation. Do you think we are that gullible we wont think your trying to buy us with this token gesture ?

4. No. I have said it before and as a member of the angling representative bodies I have asked them to back out of any talks with DEFRA et al. The message should be loud and clear, We don't want your interference and the only time we will talk to you is to defend our position.

5. Do anything that is needed to show these people we mean business. The fisheries minister seems to be having a laugh at our expense. Hit the labour party where it counts - At the ballot box.

B.B'sveiws are entirely correct and it is my belief that this should be the standard response which any self respecting angler with even a modicum of intelligence should adopt and support with every fibre of their being.

to the misguided who believe that payment of a sea fishing license will 'buy' us a more powerful voice

-get real it is just another stealth tax for them to squander and pay for yet more fisheries officers to draught ever more
new restrictions to beat us with that will not lead to even a single extra fish in the sea

[Baramundi Bob]

Bump

[gwyn]

Just Received ths from the Goverment

Question The PM received

31 October 2007

We received a petition asking:

"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to withdraw the proposal of a recreational sea anglers rod licence fee from the white paper marine bill published on 15 March 2007."

Details of Petition:

"A Marine Bill White Paper, was published on 15 March 2007, in which it was proposed that recreational sea anglers should pay for a rod licence to fund work to improve sea angling and fish stocks in our coastal waters. Not only would this be extremely expensive and almost impossible to enforce, it is also impossible to manage fish stocks to the same extent as our inland waters. We have had the right to fish freely along our coast for as long as man has walked this island, it is one of the few fundamental rights we have left in this country and I do not believe we should lose that right."

His Answer

The UK Government recognises the importance of Recreational Sea Angling (RSA) and the substantial contribution it makes to the UK economy, and we are ensuring that sea anglers' needs are increasingly considered as we manage and develop fisheries policy.

The Marine Bill will equip fisheries managers with powers that may be necessary for a more active approach to managing recreational fisheries in the future. This includes proposals to introduce a recreational sea angling licence, which would be similar to that operated by the Environment Agency for freshwater angling. The Government would expect that any proposed licensing scheme would need to clearly demonstrate the benefits for sea anglers, with revenue being used to improve recreational sea angling. It is the Government's intention to ensure that any use of the proposed powers to introduce a licensing scheme is subject to a full consultation to gather a full range of views.

Licences are also being considered within the context of the RSA Strategy, where it forms part of an overall package of measures for sea anglers. To ensure that this work is taken forward in partnership with all those who have a stake in fish stocks, the Strategy is being developed by representatives across a range of sectors. It has recently been endorsed by Defra's Inshore Fisheries Working Group who have recommended a full consultation later this year to capture a wide range of views.

[Baramundi Bob]

bump

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