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[Baramundi Bob]

In an article entitled " Sea anglers fail to bite license bait" found on Leon's Site, The National Federation Of Sea Anglers Say

“That means sea anglers would be paying to put right the damage caused by years of over exploitation by commercial fishing allowed through the neglect of successive governments,” said Richard Ferré, chairman of the NFSA  “That is Defra’s responsibility.

In my opinion this is a lot closer to the stance angling reps should be taking with regards to this issue. It's quite sad that it comes at such a late stage in the negotiations. It makes me wonder if Mr Ferre has just realised he was about to loose the backing of his membership and face the consequences dished out by the nations sea anglers when they realised they had been sold down the river without ever even hearing of the Marine Bill and The Recreational Sea Angling Strategy.

The article nearly had me reaching into my pocket for my wallet to sign up and become a member of the NFSA but then the little voice in the back of my head reminded me that the NFSA were central to the drafting of the RSA Strategy and it was them who allowed the sea angling licence issue to be included in the first drafts of RSA Strategy almost 2 years ago when the RSA Strategy and Licence fees were little more than pound signs in the back of Ben Bradshawe's mind. Since that time (4 Strategy drafts later), and despite great concern from many sea anglers the nfsa have done little if anything to ensure DEFRA do the right thing and sort out the fish stocks.

Has Mr Ferre's backtracking come too late ? Are we now to have to pay a licence to pay for codes of conduct to be placed on piers ? will our hard earned cash be going to pay for a help line for bemused anglers unable to decide what size hooks to use ?

What are the NFSA going to do about this ridiculous situation they have lead the countries sea anglers into ???

Read the full article on Leon's site at

http://www.sacn.org.uk/Conservation-and-Political-News/Sea_anglers_fail_to_bite_license_bait.html

 ; :P

[Tags:]

Tags: bass licence rsa strategy nfsa sacn 

[smokey]

A step in the right direction at least.Shame it seems like it may be too late in the day,i spoke to Wessy and a couple more lads from up north on Saturday and not one person had heard anything of the RSA or bag limits,seeing as the NFSA are based up there it seems to be too much cloak and dagger hush hush which leads me to believe that the NFSA,SACN and DEFRA are not to be trusted.

[Baramundi Bob]

The issue of communication is one I've raised with Leon a few times. I don't think they understand the scale of angling in this region. When you head North into Tyneside, an Northumberland,there is more anglers than you can shake a stick at. Some of the clubs have more members than a small town. But they have never been told about any of this. The strategy should go back to the beginning and some thought should be given as to how these people are to be informed of the proposals.

[smokey]

Thats right Glenn,if all clubs were informed,and all members asked for their opinion on what they think,if the outcome was in favour of the changes,it would be a little easier to swallow.But if all clubs and members were ballotted i personally think that upwards of 90% would oppose the changes.Like you said in your earlier post,why should recreational anglers be faced with limits and licences to repair the damage done by years of over exploitation in the commercial sector,the word scapegoat comes to mind.

[Leon Roskilly]

- The Prime Minister's Strategy Unit Consultation Leading to the 'Net Benefits' Report.

- DEFRA's subsequent consultation leading to the 'Delivering the Benefits' report.

- The EFRA committee's investigation into DEFRA's delivery of the recommendations in the Net Benefits report

- The Royal Commission on Environmental Policy consultation leading to the 'Turning the Tide' report demanding MPAs and closed areas.

- The Bradley review of Inshore Fisheries Enforcement.

- DEFRA's consultation on the Bass MLS increase

- The Marine Bill Consultation leading to the Marine Bill White Paper.

- The EU consulation leading to an EU Maritime Green Paper.

These and others have all been public consultations which have sought views on issues that will fundamentally affect UK Recreational Sea Anglers in the future (such as bag limits and licenses).

If that has led to things that anglers are only just now waking up to, and the implications of those issues, already well-shaped now, then surely much of the blame lies with those who chose to simply stick their heads in the sand, leave it to someone else, couldn't be bothered etc. thought that the world simply stays as it is, with no need to keep an eye out for changes upon the horizon and buried in government consultations, then those too are hardly blameless.

Still there's still time to play a part.

- DEFRA's Fisheries Vision 2027 - closing date 26th April

- Marine Bill White paper - closing date 8th June

- EU Maritime Green Paper - consultation period 7 - 30th June

- DEFRAs RSA Strategy - consultation period, probably 'early summer' for 12 weeks

Or shall we all leave it to Mr Ferre and kick up if we don't like what is finally delivered?

[smokey]

Leon, how the hell can clubs and members make their views heard if the only 100 odd people that know about it around here are the ones on this forum.Why have all the angling clubs,not just in the North East,but countrywide not been informed about these proposals,let alone asked their opinions???

[Leon Roskilly]

DEFRA would ask the same question!

'How the hell do we know who to include if no one tells us?'



When DEFRA put out the Bass mls consultation, or around 500 'consultees', only around 20 were RSA.

Since then we have provided DEFRA with many more RSA contacts, and the latest consultation list has  .... well loads!

If you know of clubs, tackle shops, charter boat skippers, anglers etc who want to be included in future, get them to fill in and post off the form below.


SACN, since it's inception has put out notices on websites, and on our own website, as well as circulating members, pleading with anglers to respond to these consultations and to get involved.

But unfortunately, we can only reach so many people that way, and to be honest, most simply cannot be bothered, many feel it will simply be a waste of time, and others feel that they don't have the communication skills to respond.

Unfortunately the train keeps coming at you, whatever the excuse may be, and allowing it to gather speed is a big mistake.

Countryside Link responded to the consultation leading up to the Marine Bill white paper, supporting licences, bag limits and closed areas for sea anglers.

Countryside Link represent some 8.25 million people (members of coinstituent organisations).

When the government get just a handful of responses from anglers and angling organisations in the face of that kind of pressure, it makes it much harder for angling organisations to argue the case on behalf of anglers.

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[Baramundi Bob]

Hi Leon.

DEFRA are insulting the angling community by doing business in this way. There are how many anglers in the UK ? last estimate I read was 2 million, they (DEFRA) propose a marine bill and a RSA Strategy which potential impacts significantly on those 2 million people (for better or for worse - who knows. That's a separate debate). Not once have they given any thought to ensuring the anglers receive information on these proposals yet the ball is constantly batted back into the court of the anglers saying we have a duty to seek out the information - that to me is wrong the ball should lie with DEFRA. Have they contacted sea angler magazine to get the word out ? Have they contacted TSF ? have they drawn up a list of clubs, tackle shops, charter skippers organisations ? Not to my Knowledge. I'm left wondering what DEFRA have done to engage the ordinary sea angler in all of this ?

I am aware that the consultee list has now grown from the days of the bass consultation but to be honest it's still very small with not many anglers being on the list.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/marinebill/consultlist.htm

 When the information arrives it is often in such a format that unless you have a degree in gobblegook then you have little chance of extracting any meaning from it. I note that you say some anglers feel they lack the communication skills to get involved. Well is there any wonder - Again this is another issue that should be addressed.  The information given by Defra should be in a format accessible to the average man (not written in an elaborate language only understood by academics). DEFRA can have a consultee list as long as their right arm but if they don't learn to speak to the common man (and woman) then its all a waste of time.

[Leon Roskilly]

I'm in no way defending DEFRA, or the Government on their ability to communicate with those that matter.

In fact I've taken every opportunity to point out to them that they need a communications policy that reaches down to the individual angler on the beach, not just a few representatives from a few organisations.

And they have made strides in that direction, but nowhere near enough.

But the reality is that the 'enemy' is how he is, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.

So, we need to make people realise that they must engage, or themselves be partly responsible for the consequences.

Now how's this for a question in a current Government consultation?

'How much access to fisheries should be available for recreational angling?'


( http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/fish-2027/index.htm )

If you were a commercial how would you respond to that?

If you were a member of the powerful environmental lobby, how would you respond to that?

And if many responders from non-angling stakeholder groups say

'Anglers should be restricted to catching fish of no commercial importance  and confined to designated angling areas (where there's unlikely to be many fish)'

And the NFSA with just 6,000 members (as opposed to County Links 8.25 million) says, anglers should continue to be free to fish for whatever species are available as they have no significant impact on stocks, and in some cases some species should be reserved for anglers because that gives a much better socio-economic value'   

What do you think the future of RSA is likely to be?

Just one (loaded) question in one consultation that every angler in the country should be writing to DEFRA about to ensure that there is no mistake about how any decision based on that question will affect the voting of a million or more people.

If we just leave it that DEFRA should be doing more, what can we expect?

[Baramundi Bob]

I would like to make my point on that, but I guess Leon gets sick of hearing me. So if there is anyone else wants to speak to Leon about the possibility of anglers being banned off the shore and made to fish for wrasse then please feel free to do so. I'll leave it at that.

[Leon Roskilly]

[quote author=Baramundi Bob link=topic=353.msg2181#msg2181 When the information arrives it is often in such a format that unless you have a degree in gobblegook then you have little chance of extracting any meaning from it.[/quote]

Other stakeholder organisations have the resources to have full time peopke representing them, usually with university degrees, and who have done all the courses in negotiating and presentation skills etc, and wade through documents like those with ease.

And when they need to they can afford to bring in expensive barristers to advice on the law and fight their corner.

And anglers, who directly spend £538 million a year, donating £100 million in VAT to the treasury, rely on a handful of part timers, mostly paying their own expenses.

Unless that changes we'll always get walked over.  :(

[Ramrod]

Hi Leon. I,ve been following your posts with interest since joining this site. Untill then, like most anglers had no idea what was happening within the politics of fishing and do care when people make proposals for change. That said I am as likely to contact these bodies for information as I am going to the Town Hall to see what the planing applications are for the coming months but that dosn,t mean I,m not bothered if someone decides to build a house in front of mine. It,s the same "information available" senario, but it,s not a case of angler apathy it,s more to do with poor communication. The average angler isn,t going to look for "information available" if he dosn,t know it exists in the first place. I feel it,s the bodies responsible to contact every club in the land and make them aware, in lay mans terms exactly what,s in the pipeline, because one things for sure, if a licence comes into force these will be the first people these same bodies will contact telling them that any of their members will not be able to join unless they have paid their licence fee! The information will be freely available then, when it suits!

[Leon Roskilly]

Hi Leon. I,ve been following your posts with interest since joining this site. Untill then, like most anglers had no idea what was happening within the politics of fishing and do care when people make proposals for change. That said I am as likely to contact these bodies for information as I am going to the Town Hall to see what the planing applications are for the coming months but that dosn,t mean I,m not bothered if someone decides to build a house in front of mine. It,s the same "information available" senario, but it,s not a case of angler apathy it,s more to do with poor communication. The average angler isn,t going to look for "information available" if he dosn,t know it exists in the first place. I feel it,s the bodies responsible to contact every club in the land and make them aware, in lay mans terms exactly what,s in the pipeline, because one things for sure, if a licence comes into force these will be the first people these same bodies will contact telling them that any of their members will not be able to join unless they have paid their licence fee! The information will be freely available then, when it suits!

I agree, but that's not how it is :(

And we are the ones who get stuffed if we accept it.

[gwyn]

Hi Leon
When I was at the Fisheries Liason meeting I got the feeling that Defra wanted to converse only with committees, the individual angler does not seem to come into there thinking, many of the anglers of this country whom most are pleasure anglers do not belong to clubs or organisations. Many take up fishing on their holidays others get information from websites like this to find what is going on.
Will Defra start putting information on these websites or can these anglers contact defra on there own to voice there opinions.

[Leon Roskilly]

Hi Leon
When I was at the Fisheries Liason meeting I got the feeling that Defra wanted to converse only with committees, the individual angler does not seem to come into there thinking, many of the anglers of this country whom most are pleasure anglers do not belong to clubs or organisations. Many take up fishing on their holidays others get information from websites like this to find what is going on.
Will Defra start putting information on these websites or can these anglers contact defra on there own to voice there opinions.

Talk to 50 anglers and you are likely to get 50 different views.

Talk to 5 angling clubs and you are likely to get 5 different views.

DEFRA, in fact the government as a whole, are reluctant to talk directly with lots of different people, trying to identify and condense a consensus viewpoint.

They are much more comfortable talking to a representative organisation that has a wide membership spread and should be in the position of knowing their membership and their likely views (not that all will ever agree on most issues).

That is why FACT has come into being, with encouragement from the Government.

see: http://www.sacn.org.uk/Conservation-and-Political-News/FACT-Website.html

(The FACT Marine Group, dealing with RSA issues is in fact the NFSA Conservation Group)


Once DEFRA have consulted with angling representative bodies, and decided to follow a course of action, usually they then go through a stage of a three month public consultation, taking in the views of both individuals and organisations, angling and non-angling before coming to a DEFRA decision, taken by the Minister responsible on advice from his officials (that may not be along the lines consulted upon).

They have also made it clear in the past that although many responses saying the same thing adds some weight, they are really looking for new viewpoints, information and arguments during the consultation phase, so petitions and obviously organised leter writing doesn't carry the weight that some might expect.

We have supplied DEFRA with contact details of many UK angling websites which should be getting infromation from them.

Webmasters not getting information direct from DEFRA should contact DEFRA and ask to be included.

The SACN website also tries to provide information on all issues that should be of interest to anglers, and webmasters are free to link to those articles.

Individual anglers can contact DEFRA etc at any time

See: http://www.sacn.org.uk/Useful-Information-and-Contacts/

[Baramundi Bob]

FACT - http://www.factuk.co.uk/asp_pages/about.asp?id=2

see also :

http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=72974&st=0#entry731917

Fact claims they have achieved one of their objectives of better representation of the countries sea anglers. Yet I would bet my house that not one person In this area (except Doc) knows who FACT are.

[Ramrod]

I can sympathise with Leon, everytime he sticks his head above the paraphet he gets shot at and though I feel his intentions are quite honourable it,s just not happening, certainly not around this neck of the woods. I wonder if Leon has contacted the clubs around the Medway area? I would imagine he would be fairly unpopular around that area if he hasn,t.

[Baramundi Bob]

Thing is Ray, This government is hell bent on getting a licence scheme in, and I think that's the least of our worries - Ill pay 20 quid if forced to although I will begrudge every penny. The bag limit is the one thing no one dare even talk about. I've seen grown men run to get undercover when you mention those words - but the government have insisted they are the RSA Strategy.

[Ramrod]

My feelings entirely Glen. Limitating the bags around this area where the majority of the anglers are club or matchmen would be sounding the death nell to most the anglers. I have fished in most places around the country at some time or another and some places are poor to say the least as it can be around here too at times but other times it can be very productive. During the productive times when the conditions are perfect, a competition would become a farce. For someone as myself who does the majority of my fishing in competitions the whole thing becomes rather pointless. I don,t know what the limit would be but on a good day I bet it can be reached in the first hour, what then? As you know in this area we don,t pull up onto the prom or the pier we fish down 300-400ft cliffs, for an hour! after waiting all week to fish! Yes thats a fine strategy, count me out!

[Baramundi Bob]

Hi Ray,

I've been trying to put this argument to Leon for quite some time and he's probably sick of hearing me but I just don't think the people representing us at meetings have an understanding of fishing in this part of the world. The reality for matches would be bad news to say the least. I've thought hard about it for some time as I fear licences and bag limits are not far off reality now (2-3 years is my estimate - they have to pass the marine bill through parliament, pass the rsa strategy and then introduce the legislation - A lot of people think it isn't coming because it isn't happening next week, but this is how government works - slowly and quietly - then bang they got you and most people haven't had time to wake up and smell the coffee). The only talk I ever heard of bag levels was a 2 fish per species bag (how much truth there was in that I don't know - but it did come from a trusted source). Would probably mean switching to biggest fish matches and anglers retaining fish until they caught a bigger one. Not an ideal situation I know.

I think this issue needs dragging into the open. At the moment bag limits are as much a threat to us as a licence, probably more as we all know we would cough up £20 if we needed to for the licence fee.