Topic: Fishing rights (Read 2591 times)

Acko · « **on:** March 20, 2007, 02:40:54 PM »

Ive always believed that the crown owns the shoreline, or most of it. I know theres agrrements between the crown and individuals regarding flotsom/jetsom. Have the crown ever made an agreement with Anglers or other people who gather things from the shoreline? I dont know where to look to find any such agreements. But I wonder if the new licencing proposals might Conflict with any such agreements?
I bet the crown has layed down some sort of Rules/regulations regarding fishing from its shoreline at some time in the past? I wonder if we can find a legal loophole?
Just a thought any of our members a Lawyer? lol

Leon Roskilly · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2007, 03:28:37 PM »

No one is interfering with the public right to fish per se.

It is the equipment used that will be licensed (eg a rod licence, not a fishing licence).

That's the same as in freshwater where you buy a rod licence that allows you to catch fish using a rod (well up to two rods actually, but you can buy a second licence that allows you to use a third rod)

Ramrod · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2007, 03:53:52 PM »

I have been told on more than one occasion that some of the laws we are using date back to 1215 (Magna Carta). You may get some information by looking under Salvage laws. There are some topics there and one refers to the M.S.C. Napoli which ran aground at Lyme Bay in which Mr.Julian Brazier (con) recommends "revisiting the ancient salvage laws" due to the "unacceptable looting" I hope these are rellevant to your post Acko and judging by his quotes the laws are obviously very old.

Leon Roskilly · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2007, 04:51:10 PM »

The public right to fish predates Magna Carta.

But the crown had diminished many of the common law rights, and fisheries was one of them, whereby the crown had created exclusive 'private' fisheries as royal favours etc.

What Magna Carta did was confirm those rights (though it makes no specific mention of the public right to fish - see http://www.bl.uk/treasures/magnacarta/translation.html )

After Magna Carta no further public fisheries were created.

But those existing before Magna Carta still exist, and there are hundreds of them, eg in my own estuary (the Medway) only members of the local fishery guild can fish commercially, and other commercial fishermen can be prosecuted for fishing there.

For those interested there are some interesting bits to be gleaned from
http://www.sacn.org.uk/Articles/The_Public_Right_to_Fish.html

And a google search on the public right to fish throws up a lot of information.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Public+Right+to+Fish&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB

However, in no way can any of that prevent the government from introducing a licence to use a fishing rod (or rods) in slatwater.

The public right to fish isn't affected by the licensing of the equipment used to catch the fish.

Dav · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2007, 05:34:33 PM »

Would you need a liscence for a hand line ? ,ie no rod ? i know its a stupid question but just wondered ,or is it rod and line ...

Leon Roskilly · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2007, 05:45:17 PM »

Quote from: Dav on March 20, 2007, 05:34:33 PM

Would you need a liscence for a hand line ? ,ie no rod ? i know its a stupid question but just wondered ,or is it rod and line ...

In freshwater fishing a handline is illegal.

(In Scotland if you put your rod down, it becomes a 'fixed engine' which is technically illegal - after all flyfishermen always have their rod in their hand when engaged in fishing, only nasty worm dangling poachers hiding in the bushes are likely to rest their rod on a tree when fishing - not a popular ruling with Scottish Pike Anglers!)

But I would imagine that the rod licence for a saltwater rod licence will allow the use of a handline.

One of those things that need to be raised if the ever go ahead with the idea and (as is usual) launch a consultation to sort out all of the many details.

And that list could go on for pages!

OAP licenses

Junior licenses

No licenses for kids

How much to charge for a group licence for charter boats

etc

etc

etc

Dav · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2007, 06:00:07 PM »

And policing of it all, thats the bit i think they will struggle with

Ramrod · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2007, 06:06:30 PM »

As soon as you enter a competition or join a club they,ve got you, which ties up most of the hardcore fishermen around here!

Leon Roskilly · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2007, 06:13:46 PM »

Quote from: Dav on March 20, 2007, 06:00:07 PM

And policing of it all, thats the bit i think they will struggle with

Just cut and pasted this from an email I sent earlier today:

I think that we need better arguments against a rod licence than 'there's miles of coastline, how are thy going to enforce it' or 'how are they going to check licences of 10 anglers on a boat'. (Answer: when they go out, or when they come in, or when the patrol boat checks their fish for mls etc)

Yes, there might be many miles of coastline, but there are many, many, many more miles of fishable river bank, streams, burns, canals etc, (just look at the blue lines on the map and compare all of them with the single line of coast. Oh! and don't forget they have to patrol both banks) often in hard to get places and difficult terrain.

And then there's the banks of ponds, lakes, resevoirs, moats etc to add in.

And inland the vegetation comes right down and into the water, where many freshwater anglers wear real-tree camourflage, a lot harder to see than guys standing on a beach or fishing off rocks, from a mile or more away.

And there are a lot more freshwater anglers fishing at night than sea anglers, oh and many freshwater anglers use boats as well.

Yet the problem of enforcement hasn't made a freshwater licence an impossibility, because the truth is that although the chances of being caught are remote, it's enough to make anyone fishing without a licence uneasy, and most are happier to pay Â£24 a year than constantly looking over their shoulder fearing that the stranger coming along the bank might just be a bailiff.

And yes you can probably go for years, fishing some hard to get to place at 2am, but is that the only kind of place you are going to want to fish? Are you never going to fish a popular spot, or a spot where you could be vulnerable?

As the freshwater licence demonstrates, not every licence has to be checked, every time someone goes fishing, forr enforcement to be successful. Not even checked every few years.

That there are prosecutions proves that many people are prepared to risk it, rather than spend a few quid on a licence, but they are very much in the minority, and the revenue raised from more compliant folk makes the scheme a success even if a few fearful chancers don't play the game.

No that is all taken into account, and I can't really understand why so many people still think it's likely to be a problem.

It's not as though there are successful working licence schemes around the world that are very similar to our situation in the UK.

We need proper arguments, and the hard evidence to back them, to show that a licence will be detrimental to RSA in the UK.

And when you look at existing licensing schemes, that's very difficult to find, as DEFRA very well know!

Leon

http://www.thisisdorset.net/display.var.1271041.0.anger_at_plan_to_save_sealife.php

Ramrod · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2007, 06:41:22 PM »

Although it,s a valid point to ask how they will police the non licence holders I don,t believe it could be used as a stick to beat them with, and it would be no different to running around with a car with no tax, you may be caught,you may not, but is it worth it. As I posted earlier it,s only the pleasure anglers who have any chance of getting away with it. The real argument to my mind is what do we get in return? A big fat nothing would be my guess.

Lobbers · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2007, 06:49:36 PM »

so if we all go back to swinging handlines, we are out of the frame, a very poular method of fishing in the 1800's :o

Dav · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2007, 07:21:23 PM »

True and true... ;D >:(

Baramundi Bob · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2007, 08:11:52 PM »

Having fished the Esk for many years I know how easy it is for them to police the licence scheme. For the first few years I had my licence checked nearly every time I set foot on the river bank. The bailliffs seemed to know that heavy rain meant all the anglers came out and the bailiffs had an uncanny knack of knowing exactly where you would be.

Same is true of sea anglers especially in this region. Rough seas mean cod - cod mean anglers are about.

dawn and dusk for the bass boys and high water on the piers for those who go for mackerel.

Ramrod · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2007, 08:42:03 PM »

These days, and I know from my poaching days ;D (not fish poaching) they don,t need to climb down ropes or run around the country side chasing you, they just park up next to the most inaccesible cliffs and wait for you. And before anyone say,s yes but they didn,t catch you fishing red handed, who,s going to believe that when you are togged up to the eyeballs with a fishing rod in your hand, not to mention the fact that they will be within their rights to search your bag for fish. The other thing to remember if you happen to get dropped off is not to switch your lamp on ??? It,s too easy, if you were a sea bailiff how difficult do you think it would be?

Baramundi Bob · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2007, 08:56:36 PM »

Only person they would never catch is my mate whacker. He's like a hobbit - could be right next to you and you would never know.

He turned up next to me one night at Saltwick. All I heard was a cough - looked around and there he was. "Where did you come ? " from I asked. "south bats" came the reply. The little bugger had walked about a mile with his light off and I never saw him untill he was right next to me. I think his middle name must be stealth.

Acko · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2007, 09:05:51 PM »

The boogas will have infra red binos n stuff no doubt. I see that freshwater rod licences are needed theres lots of work tending riverbanks and stocking fish testing water quality etc etc But who is gonna rake the weed out of the beaches Put CCTV on carparks anything like that? Or fix up run down jettys piers etc. No one Thats who. I still think its just a scam to get money out of us, It will cost as much to administrate it and police. I dont think itll be any good to anyone? Just pointless except it might produce a few unnessecary jobs for a few people.

Lobbers · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:32:25 AM »

so it must have been eggs then ray ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ::)

MFC · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2007, 01:38:04 PM »

whacker must eat lots of carrots like my dad.He would sneek round filey brigg in total darkness so nobody new his next trick;he always wore dark clothes and would walk round the base of the cliff .When i bought a new RED titan top some years ago he would laugh and reply people will see you from miles away.We keep threating to by him a bright top so we can keep an eye on him!!!!!

Baramundi Bob · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2007, 02:25:36 PM »

Quote from: MFC on March 21, 2007, 01:38:04 PM

whacker must eat lots of carrots like my dad.He would sneek round filey brigg in total darkness so nobody new his next trick;he always wore dark clothes and would walk round the base of the cliff .When i bought a new RED titan top some years ago he would laugh and reply people will see you from miles away.We keep threating to by him a bright top so we can keep an eye on him!!!!!

Its the old school m8. Mind Dennis is similar. All in black, balaclava too.

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Author Topic: Fishing rights (Read 2591 times)