feeding bands

[big cliff]

  have you noticed the vastly different feeding bands  between fishing a good sized tide and really slack tides ?  some marks just dont fish on a flooding tide until you start to get towards high water when its a big tide, then fish like hell on the ebb, go to that same mark on a slack  tide about one hour after low water the bites start, then usually quieten down before the high water, and are slow on the ebb ------ same mark ---- different feeding band , ant theres alot of anglers out there havent twigged it yet, and one thing for certain there will be marks in your vicinity where this is happening, it just needs sussing out, its well worth the effort, theres quite a few marks between the tees and whitby that do just what i explained,  give it a go!

[Baramundi Bob]

Yes Alan I will agree. Have you noticed that if you take note of the types of ground where this happens you can apply the same rules elsewhere if the ground types are similar.

[Ramrod]

Too true big cliff, thats when all those hours sussing out marks pay dividends. Wind direction also plays a big part in the big picture too. For instance a small tide with a SE wind will fish diferent to a small tide with a SW wind which sounds a bit obvious but my point is, to add to yours is, to get to know a mark or area well you need to fish them in as many differing conditions as possible. I would,nt call a blanking session a waste of time as things can be learned from  that, but never discount an area on the strength of one session on a particular sea state or tide as I feel the winds/tides preceding the session could also have an affect on the fishing. I,m a big believer in learning a mark good and proper but also feel like I will never really know it and try to keep an open mind.

[GJW]

Very true.......... 

There is a few marks i fish that fish really well on a slack tide on the flooding tide with a certain swell direction, but dont fish the same on a bigger tide in the same condition but then do fish well on the ebb in them conditions on a bigger tide but not on the ebb on a slacker tide...... All just little peices of the jigsaw..

Thats why sea fishing is great, trying to work out why when and how a certain mark fishes, rather than just turning up because there is a bit of sea running and chucking a bait and hopeing for the best, patterns do emerge if you fish a spot for long enough in various tides and sea conditions...

I remeber Big Cliff telling me about a certain spot and he said i should get my first bite 20 mins after high........Wrong..... Big Cliff it was 22mins and 13 seconds...

[Baramundi Bob]

There certainly are marks you can set your watch by. I know one where the fish come round the corner at 2 hours 30 mins before high water and if you stand in the right spot you can intercept them 30 mins before anyone else  Then when they've passed you go join the others 

[GJW]

Also i find some spots fish better by fishing them from certain angle if you know what i mean, dont know why this happens...

And ceratin spots like you say Glenn that you can almost set your watch as to when the fish will come on, and also stop biteing, this always has me thinking are the fish always there and just start feeding at that stage in the tide or are they just moveing past, i think probably the latter but i am not totally certain...

I suppose there is somethings we will never know for sure...

[Dav]

So how often do we find that when you arrive at a mark , and according to your diaries , the wind , tide and sea conditions are near perfect for that mark yet the fish just dont show ?

[smokey]

So how often do we find that when you arrive at a mark , and according to your diaries , the wind , tide and sea conditions are near perfect for that mark yet the fish just dont show ?

Cause Lobbers wiped em all out the tide before 

[Baramundi Bob]

So how often do we find that when you arrive at a mark , and according to your diaries , the wind , tide and sea conditions are near perfect for that mark yet the fish just dont show ?

Dav

If this happens a lot for me I will look for another mark that fishes consistant in those conditions. I've heard Ray refer to this as "Fishing true" (He once mentioned it in a post about Hayburn Wyke) and its something I look at too. I like to feel confident that under certain conditions a mark will fish the same.

I know cliff has mentioned Saltwick Bay quite a bit before and Gary has spoke of doing well there. I have fished the spot inside out and probably spent more time there than anywhere else and To me its a mark that don't fish true   (Except under 1 certain condition   ).

You'll never find a mark that will fish 100% true  but the closer you can get to 100% the better. If a mark don't fish consistent under the "EXACT" same conditions then ditch it.

 But also remember that it takes years and years of studying the sea to notice very subtle difference and untill you know how to judge if the conditions are exactly the same then just keep observing the sea and how it effects a mark at very opportunity ..

[Dav]

So how often do we find that when you arrive at a mark , and according to your diaries , the wind , tide and sea conditions are near perfect for that mark yet the fish just dont show ?

Cause Lobbers wiped em all out the tide before 

That`l be about right ...... ....and knowing my luck sometimes the tide after too ..........

[Ramrod]

You'll never find a mark that will fish 100% true  but the closer you can get to 100% the better. If a mark don't fish consistent under the "EXACT" same conditions then ditch it.

Thats about the size of it Dav. Every mark has a mysteryrious blanking sesion up it,s sleeve at times and for no apparent reason though I,ve found it,s often the time of year which is responsible  which is something else you must take into consideration, bloody fish 

[Baramundi Bob]

I,ve found it,s often the time of year which is responsible

Nice one Ray, Time of year at marks is certainly a big factor. I was thinking about this last night after Dav brought it up and I was thinking of times when the sea conditions appear exactly the same yet things arent really identical. A couple of things I thought of that I have notice make a difference are :

* What the weather was doing the previous day. One mark I know fishes its balls off if ever you get a moderate NW swell and the previous day the swell was south east.

* How long the swell has been running and if the swell is growing or dieing.

* Is the tide sizes growing or falling ? i.e. one mark in particular I know fishes well on a Whitby tide book 5.2 high. But it only fishes if the tides have been up at 5.5 or above and are on the way down, Even though the tide is 5.2 it wont fish if the tide sizes are on the increase.

There are many more examples but these are just some of my observations on how seemingly identical situations can actually be very different. The only way you will suss these things is to fish a mark inside out. I know Dav will get it all sussed because he's very keen and has got one of the best tutors available in GJW 

[GJW]

  I have probably shown the lad to many of my bad habit's already....  
  I have also learnt a lot from him aswell, and i am still learning..

I agree with all that has been said and its true fishing is not an exact science and many diffrent factors can have an effect on the out come of a fishing session, but i also think we can look to deeply in to things at times, i do it all the time genrally looking for an excuse for why i caught nothing....  

 

[big cliff]

I,ve found it,s often the time of year which is responsible

Nice one Ray, Time of year at marks is certainly a big factor. I was thinking about this last night after Dav brought it up and I was thinking of times when the sea conditions appear exactly the same yet things arent really identical. A couple of things I thought of that I have notice make a difference are :

* What the weather was doing the previous day. One mark I know fishes its balls off if ever you get a moderate NW swell and the previous day the swell was south east.

* How long the swell has been running and if the swell is growing or dieing.

* Is the tide sizes growing or falling ? i.e. one mark in particular I know fishes well on a Whitby tide book 5.2 high. But it only fishes if the tides have been up at 5.5 or above and are on the way down, Even though the tide is 5.2 it wont fish if the tide sizes are on the increase.

There are many more examples but these are just some of my observations on how seemingly identical situations can actually be very different. The only way you will suss these things is to fish a mark inside out. I know Dav will get it all sussed because he's very keen and has got one of the best tutors available in GJW 

when i first started fishing with gjw he was what i would call a bit bit of a train on a track, with a bit of cohersion and a big stick, hes more of an off roader now and as you saya
good tutor and angler

[big cliff]

Also i find some spots fish better by fishing them from certain angle if you know what i mean, dont know why this happens...

And ceratin spots like you say Glenn that you can almost set your watch as to when the fish will come on, and also stop biteing, this always has me thinking are the fish always there and just start feeding at that stage in the tide or are they just moveing past, i think probably the latter but i am not totally certain...

I suppose there is somethings we will never know for sure...

i suspect that the fish are very often there but not feeding, that is until they feel the tide push, i used to fish a gulley, where if you cast out a decent way or just dropped one short you got your first bite at the same time, so it wasnt as though the rod well out got the first bite, then the cast much closer got a bite a few minutes later, i think the fish very often are holed up waiting for the tide to push , then bingo ----- i have also seen flounders in a harbour in very shallow water,you could put a nive piece of peeler on there nose end but they didnt want to know, because there was no tide,no movement, soon as the tide started they would start darting about, then shortly after the bites started

[GJW]

I must agree to some extent with Big Cliff, around slack water fishing is genrally poor, but when the tide starts pushing, the fishing sometimes comes alive and fishing can be hectic.... so i think sometimes the fish are just hold up conserving there energy until the tide moves, then useing the tide to there advantage.... I noticed this happen alot when fishing shallow weed marks a lot in summer.

Train on a track... me.... never....

[Dav]

 The reason i ask about when conditions are right yet the fish just dont seem to turn up ,is because  on several occasions ive spoken to good anglers about certain marks , and there idea of that mark differs from my own , even tho on both occasions good bags were had ....could it be that these particular marks are "special marks" or "untrue ",,  so putting them in ure diary as a particular tide/wind/sea condtion spot is pointless , ?  and just put expect fish anytime ......
confusing thinking to much into it ........

[Baramundi Bob]

Always worth noting everything Dav even if you think its irrelevant. At some time in the future it could become part of a the bigger picture.

I think you should be rating yourself in the category of good angler that you mention above. I do think that even good anglers like ourselves dont understand everything and IMO there are subtle (sometimes almost invisible) differences in conditions that we don't see. Its only my thinking on the situation but part of the reason the likes of Ray, CPS, MWW and Gary are that bit better than the rest is they have figured out a little more than us.

I know some people say don't think too deep but again IMO my angling started to get much better the more I thought about things. My advice would be think about everything, watch others, ask their advice (but don't take it as gospel as there are many willing to send you down the wrong path) and always have an open mind. I don't think angling is as simple as many believe it to be. The more hypotheses you think up and test the better things will be come for you. The cast and hope brigade will always have poor catches and blaim everything but themselves  .

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